Plant to Plate Podcast: “Herb Your Enthusiasm” Mini-Series

Plant to Plate is a casual podcast that I co-host with my gardening pal, Alyson from Sassy Daffodil. Whether you have a sprawling backyard garden or just a few pots on your patio, we’re here to help you grow, harvest, and cook with confidence.

Our first 4-episode series is focused on herbs! Naturally, I couldn’t resist calling it the “Herb Your Enthusiasm” series because I love a good pun (as you’ll quickly see from the episode titles!).

Grab an herb-infused drink and explore the series below! Don’t forget to subscribe, and let us know if you would like more garden-to-table tips!

🎙️ Episode 1: (Almost) Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Basil

Basil is the undisputed king of summer herbs! In our inaugural episode, Alyson shares how to pinch basil to keep it bushy (and why you don’t want it to flower), plus why storing it like a bouquet on your counter keeps it from turning black. On the nutrition and kitchen side, we talk about freezing basil in olive oil cubes, making simple herb-infused oils, and building easy summer meals.

• Click to Read Basil Episode Transcript

  Plant to Plate S1E1 Basil

  Alyson: Welcome to Plant to Plate, the podcast that shares the love of growing and eating food. This season, we're exploring herbs. I'm Alison, the garden consultant, designer, and educator behind Sassy Daffodil

  Amber: And I'm Amber, a licensed nutritionist and founder of Whole You Nutrition and Meal Planning Collective. In today's episode, we're exploring basil. But first, I think it'd be helpful to share with the listeners how we got here, Allison. Like, why are we making this podcast?

  Alyson: yeah, I think besides just having, an obvious connection in our businesses, everybody needs to eat and the food has to come from somewhere. I think that we also have a very similar style and personalities, and we like to have fun, right?

  Amber: Absolutely. we first partnered, on a microgreen and sprouts grow along in the cold winter months in Minnesota. I think it was back in February, wasn't it?

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: and as we're recording this now, it is officially summer, which is very and means that we can actually turn our, our plant eyes to the outside, 'cause we definitely weren't growing sprouts and micr- microgreens outside in February in Minnesota.

  Alyson: And that's true. We're both in Minnesota, so if people are listening elsewhere, obviously growing herbs isn't something that has to happen only in certain months, 'cause you can do it inside too. But maybe that's another episode.

  Amber: Yeah, I actually would love to talk about that at some time 'cause I feel like I can grow herbs in my sleep outside, but when I try to bring them in the house, it's a different story. So see, there's just so much, so much to talk about.

  Alyson: Yes

  Amber: in each of these episodes, we're gonna do kind of mini seasons.

  We don't really have a firm structure in place of how often we will release episodes, but we're planning to do, like, four herb episodes. So we'll release those weekly while we're doing it, and then depending on what people are interested or what they wanna hear more of, we'll kind of pop back in occasionally with some follow-up episodes too. but in the herb episodes specifically, we're gonna talk about different varieties of each herb, so today that will be basil, flavor profiles, potential health benefits. Caveat, this is not us recommending specific herbs or herbal treatments for any sort of conditions, just general information and knowledge. plus when we were talking about herbs, we had a lot of fun with talking about them in terms of, like, their personality. so we'll highlight that a little bit, talk about growing conditions, and then of course, like, how to store, eat, all of the, all of the good things with herbs. let's start with that personality thing.

  Allison, how would you describe the personality of basil?

  Alyson: Basil, you know, it really feels like that steady, loyal pal, It's probably the one that most people grow. But every once in a while, it might throw on an ascot and take you to the jazz club, and we're gonna talk about that.

  Amber: Uh, I love that. Hi, basil. Who knew? Who knew? we are definitely starting with Alison's, area of expertise, not mine. What are some of the different varieties of basil that we can grow, either from plants that we're purchasing at a nursery or from seeds that we might be buying

  Alyson: what I recommend is if you're comfortable starting from seed, basil is an easy one to start with. but the thing about buying a seed packet is you get more than one seed. You actually get quite a few, which, maybe it's a couple bucks, depending if you're getting it on sale or, ordering it online or whatever.

  But most nurseries will haveall kinds of seeds. And if you can find it, the Everleaf Emerald Towers basil is, like, the, the easy, like, you can't... I, I don't ever wanna say you can't kill it, because in gardening you can kill anything. there's sweet Genovese, basil that is a very standard one.

  But then there's also Thai basil or tulsi and holy basil. So, you can get packets of those. But if you know you really want, sweet basil, get a packet of that. And then if you wanna try something, that might be the way to, get a seedling or the start or the small plant at the nursery.

  You know, 'cause there's different flavors, different colors, different aromas that all of these herbs have. And so that's a way, instead of buying a whole seed packet and then putting it in soil and waiting for it to grow, you have something that you could ar- actually start with pretty soon. So, I kinda recommend purchasing plants for some of those things.

   When I started growing basil, I discovered there's not only a standard loyalty pal, right? There's all these different kinds, and that's the fun part about growing from seed, 'cause sometimes you can do a lot of different things when you grow from seed. but what should somebody know about these different varieties and flavor profiles?

  Amber: Yes. I have to admit, I have not been brave enough to start growing most things from seed yet.that's definitely a goal of mine. So all of the basil that I have this year has definitely been purchased starts from the nursery, and they offer so many, so it is nice. Like you said, if you don't need an entire plot of basil, sometimes the seeds and the number you get aren't necessarily worth it.

  Although in my experience, those seeds last pretty well, and you can use them year after year. But experience is very limited.

  Alyson: when stored correctly, right? So making sure they aren't getting wet or in a humid location. So generally, uh, a dry, darker location is best for your seed storing. And yes, you're right, they can last for a long, long time. the indigenous f- folks have been hoarding them in different areas for years and years and years and years and years to help us, uh, actually have things that can grow at any point in time

  Amber: That's amazing. So in terms of flavor profiles, I will talk kind of about the most, I don't know if they're the most popular, the most easily found ones. So I think the, the version of ba- basil that most of us are most familiar with is that Genovese or basil. That's the standard sort of green leaf. And the flavor, which I'm guessing most of our listeners are familiar with the flavor of basil, but it has kind of a sweet anise or licorice flavor and a little bit of clove. And I do find, we'll talk more about kind of storage later, but I do find basil is one where the flavor changes pretty dramatically if you're looking at dried versus fresh basil. So I think we can talk a little bit more about that later. another type of basil that I am also growing this year is Thai basil, and that has a stronger flavor. It still has that sweetness, but there's like more of that anise or licorice flavor, and there's even a hint ofmint in there. And as the name probably gives away, it's used frequently in Thai food. Um, and then which is another favorite of mine, is often used more, I would say my experience with it is in a tea form. But that has almost a little bit more of like a peppery clove flavor and maybe a little bit of like lemon and mint and anise as kind of the undertone.

  It doesn't have quite the same flavor as that sweet basil I think most of us know

  Alyson: See, this is where I love having your perspective because I don't understand flavor profiles very well, and I don't understand how to mix them when eating. So this is why I do love doing this, is because I can grow the stuff, but then I don't know what to do with it. And I would, I would never be able to call out those different flavors.

  I, like the sommelier when they ask what the wine tastes like, and I'll be like, "Uh, grapes?"

  Amber: I think herbs are really interesting because I'm guessing if we polled a handful of people just like, you know, person on the street style, a lot of people would say that they don't care for the flavor of licorice or anise. But that is a flavor that comes up so often with different herbs.

  Basil's a great example. I think a lot of people say they love basil, and those same people would be like, "I can't stand the taste of black licorice." But there are some of those same subtle flavor profiles that come in there. They're just not quite as strong, and they're layered with some of those other things like the sweetness and the little bit of clove and sometimes a little bit of citrus, too. So it's really interesting. This is not the last, uh, herb I will be talking about anise and licorice flavors in.

  Alyson: That is, it is kind of mind-blowing because I would never want to have Good & Plenty candy with a tomato, right? So it's kind of blowing my mind right now

  Amber: Just chop 'em up and sprinkle 'em over your caprese salad. Mm. Little texture as well as flavor. So again, I'm not an herbalist, but there's definitely some herbal traditions that spill over into nutrition training, and I have taken herbalism classes and do some ongoing education with somebody who is an herbalist. So I do learn about different,ways that herbs can be used for health and wellness, during different continuing education classes.

  And one of the ones that I actually recommend to quite a few clients is tulsi, so that holy basil. And usually I recommend this in the form of a tea because it's a really great nervous system support. if somebody tends towards a more anxious personality or is feeling just a little bit wound up or a little stressed out, having a cup of tulsi tea, both the ritual of like making the cup of tea, but then also the action of the herb itself in the body really helps to calm and soothe the nervous system. Now, it's not like you're popping a Xanax, so not gonna be this immediately n- night and day difference, but it does have this nice soothing effect on the body. and then this other one, I've never tried this before. So Alison, when we were kind of researching our herbs, one thing that we came across in,some of the books, and we'll put recommendations for the books in the show notes too, but one of them recommended using a basil poultice for mosquito bites.

  a poultice is essentially like chopping up the herb and like kind of making sort of like a rough paste out of it. Is that how you would describe it,

  Alyson: Yeah. I mean, it just sounds really old school,But I mean, some of the- to g- we are going back more to natural remedies, so the idea of the tulsi tea. I haven't grown tulsi basil yet. Definitely need to try it now. I don't know how often I'm gonna reach for it to chop it up and put on a mosquito bite.

  I feel like I have some other things that I'm cool with there.

  Amber: I mean, if it's the only thing I have, I, I get a lot of mosquito bites, so if it's, uh... Maybe I'll give it a try sometime this summer and see how it works. I'll report back if I try it.

  Alyson: Yeah. Take it on a hike with you.

  Amber: yeah. Just a little baggie of smashed up basil to smear on my ankles. Nobody asked

  Alyson: Oh, did you get bit? I have some basil poultice here.

  Amber: Give it a try. Okay, so those are just kind of a few things. And then herbs in general, we'll talk more about this in some of the other herbal episodes that we have, but, they have a lot of, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant types of properties Herbs only benefit us in, I would say, most ways.

  They add flavor, they add some nutritional benefit, they add some potential, wellness or medical benefits in some ways, too. So how do we grow these things? Basil in particular, how do we keep our basil plants happy?

  Alyson: Yes. the other thing is having fresh herbs, like you said, not just affecting flavor, but also the amount of benefit that you get from it, because you are getting the highest benefit the fresher it is. And so if it hasn't gone through an entire supply chain in the grocery stores, it's come straight from your backyard grocery store, that's awesome.

  like I said, basil is a pretty easy one to start from seed. Then as it grows up, it becomes a teenager and, you know, it, it struggles with a few things. first of all, it wants a lot of sun. So full sun is at least five hours or more. But don't give it too much sun because then it's gonna get burnt, right?

  It doesn't ... And it doesn't do well d- well in cold. So it gets burned if it's too cold, if it gets burned, if it's too, has too much direct sun. So a d- a little bit of dappled sun and warmth is kind of the perfect place. Now, I s- anything that I say about this is the perfect gardening condition, I don't want anybody to stress out about that because I try all kinds of things and I figure out what works for me and my garden.

   you'll do the same thing. So, those are just some things to, to know. pairing basil with tomatoes, actually i- not just on the plate, but when you're planting, can help improve the flavor of the tomato and help repel insects and pests that would want to enjoy munching on the tomato plants, but the basil, generally things that kind of smell, maybe like a anise, they don't really love, and so it can help those go away.

   it is an annual, and what annual means is that it's not gonna make it through our winter and come back next year. There are different herbs, and we'll talk about those later, that will actually come back, so put them in a place that you want to have them back over years. but an annual means it's just gonna, plant for that year, and then you can start the next year with new seeds or a new seedling.

   if those things aren't options, the other thing, uh, besides just buying it at a s- a nursery, farmers markets, CSAs, or co-ops are awesome options for buying it and getting a much fresher version than at, like, a big box store or grocery store

  Amber: Quick question related to annuals and perennials.

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: an annual everywhere? Like, do we always need to replant the seeds, or do you know if there are certain, growing zones where it would just,continue on? Like, if it never gets cold, would it just keep growing, or does it have... totally asking

  Alyson: No, that's

  Amber: out of the box here.

  Alyson: No, that's good. That's good.

  Amber: wondering, like, south from here, is there some place where basil just kind of hangs out year-round and doesn't die?

  Alyson: I don't know about that. I'm Instagram friends and followers with people in Florida and California, and I've heard of some things, like rosemary, it can be shrubs in Arizona. here there's some different things we can do to make it work in Minnesota, but it has to come inside.

  Basil though, I don't f- I feel like even in the, the southern climates, even their winter does get too cold for it. somebody in Florida and the basil would be like, "Oh, it's 50 degrees and it's too cold."

  Amber: Yeah, it, it is a little sensitive to,

  Alyson: no.

  Amber: temperature changes, as you mentioned. I would also guess, this is the part of the show where Amber just says things that she has no way of backing up. I would also guess from, like, a culinary perspective that if it did continue growing, that unless you're really tending to it and trimming it and, like, staying on top of it, that the leaves would get to a point where they don't have the same, like, sweet flavor and, light, delicate texture.

  Like, they might get kind of woody or bitter if it just kept growing without a lot of attention paid to it.

  Alyson: Yes, I totally agree. and that could even happen within a regular summer season with a lot of herbs. They want you to cut it a lot. And then it will keep making leaves, and then once you stop cutting it, it's like, "Okay, I need to make flowers and make seed in order to..." Well, unfortunately, this thing thinks it's g- that it's going to re-seed itself.

  In Minnesota, it's not going to. But that's what it will do, and it creates the flowers. That changes the flavor profile of the herb as well. The flowers can be beneficial for our insects, but they also, they make the plant itself bitter, and then they're making seeds. So the energy in the plant is going to a different part of the plant.

  But that is a place where you can save seed, and then you don't have to buy seed, and you're actually getting a stronger seed because you got something from a plant that survived in your garden. And so we can talk about that sometime, too

  Amber: Yeah. Man, plants are just so cool. okay, so we kind of talked a little bit about how if it does start to flower, it changes the flavor. But what about harvesting in general? Like, how do I keep my backyard basil plant so that I can make those caprese salads throughout the year and not have the flavor change?

  Alyson: Yeah.

  Amber: I do?

  Alyson: it is hard. We, we think, "Oh, let it grow. Let it grow." No, you actually, in plant world, you want to cut. But where you cut, you just wanna make sure there's still a leaf set at the bottom of that stem, so cut above the lowest leaf set, and then let it keep going. do it even if you don't need basil that day, because it is going to help the plant be healthier and bushier instead of just having one single stem that's constantly putting additional leaves on it.

   that encourages the new growth, and we already talked about it going to seed. if you are saving the seed, label the envelope that you put it in. Some people think they're gonna remember what the seed is. Guess what? You're, you're not.

  Amber: Yeah, the same way that I don't remember what's in that jar that I put in the freezer if I don't label it.

  Alyson: Yep, yep, yep.

  Amber: soup is this? okay, so I don't know where I heard this first, but I have found that when I am cutting my backyard basil and bringing it into the house, if I'm not using it that day, I was told at some point to store it like a bouquet of flowers.

  So stick the stems into water and then just leave it on the counter. I, I do notice that it helps solve the problem of basil turning black in the refrigerator, which I've definitely had both from homegrown basil and grocery store basil. and I guess the grocery store kind of gives us a clue of that because most often, or many times, grocery stores have basil, like, by the tomatoes and not in the refrigerator section with the other herbs.

  Alyson: I love it, of course, being a flower girl myself. so a couple things. that is actually one of the ways that you can propagate or make more basil, because if you have kept it in a vase on your windowsill or on your counter for a long enough time, you'll start to see it growing roots at the bottom of the stem.

   you can then pop that plant back into the soil if you want to. you're essentially growing it and you're encouraging it to stay alive,

  Amber: I love that. So if I don't get around to using it, I'll just literally start growing more basil,

  Alyson: Yes

  Amber: plant that I can use. with propagating basil, will it just start coming out of the bottom? I know like when I cut my, I don't know, like philodendron or whatever, I'm supposed to leave like one of those little nodes, and that's where the roots tend to start coming out of if I'm propagating that.

  Will basil... Does it need to have one of those like growth points to start rooting in water, or will it

  Alyson: No.

  Amber: the stem eventually?

  Alyson: It will yeah. it will eventually, and some take longer to produce roots. Like, even if you grow from seed, it can take, talk about a time window, it can take somewhere from three days or 30 days to germinate, and that can depend on the type, I mean, the type of basil that you have, how old the seeds are, what the conditions are,

  I said, it's, kind of a teenager before it even,starts growing. But, um, same type of thing,

  Amber: I know this, I'm, I'm taking us back in time to

  Alyson: Yes.

  Amber: the plant again, but one just came to, to mind for me. Is there anything special that I need to do? Like, if I'm starting basil from seed, should I be starting it indoors while it's still chilly outside? Or is it one... 'Cause you just said it could be, like, three days or 30 days.

  Is it one that I could, like, pop it into my soil outside as a seed after, like, the f- last frost has passed? What is your recommendation?

  Alyson: So I'm gonna try to keep the answer simple, but a lot of things depend, right? Depending on where you live, what your zones are, what your average ... You mentioned average last frost date. That might be not, might not be something everybody understands. You can look it up on, the Farmer's Almanac website.

  But, yes, you can, and I do start stuff in- indoors. That's a whole nother thing because you do have to keep it watered. It is a baby that you're taking care of inside that is really wanting to be outside. So it needs light, it needs water. It needs not too much water, And so, like, four to six weeks before your average last frost.

  Amber: Okay

  Alyson: if you were to sow it outside after frost, germination, if we say up to a month, then you might start getting a few leaves. You'd be able to harvest it, say, six weeks in. Again, all of this depends on weather conditions, of course. and then, you kinda have a month to harvest.

  Where the Emerald Towers, Everleaf Emerald Towers is really special is,they've done some different testing and, and hybridization to get to the point where this one doesn't flower for another up to 12 weeks. And we don't even get that much in Minnesota, though. But it gives you a lot more time to, to cut back from, from the, the basil itself

  Amber: Oh, that's I'm gonna have to try some of that, 'cause I'm not always so great about pinching back those flowers as quickly as I should be. if I'm growing it from seed inside, do I need to do anything to, ease its transition to outdoors? I know some plants need,

  what the technical term is, where you, like, bring it outside for a little bit, but then bring it back inside. Do you have to... Is that with literally, like, every

  Alyson: Yes

  Amber: you're growing from seed, or is it only certain

  Alyson: Nope, it is all plants. we call it hardening off, and what it means, it's not just for the hot weather, it can be wind, hot weather, and sometimes in Minnesota it could be the cooler weather. But think about you're growing things in an incubator, essentially, indoors, and if you just immediately pop it outside and it gets a windy day or a really sunny day, it's like, "I've never seen this before.

  What the heck?" so what you do is you, over two weeks, you take it outside, give it a little bit of shade time, bring it back inside overnight, take it back outside the next day, give it a little bit more shade time, maybe one hour of sun, bring it back inside. So we call it the dance, right? You're, you're shuffling things in and out- outside for es- essentially two weeks.

   But, yes, they need a transition time as they go outside, and that is for all plants that you start growing indoors.

  Amber: That makes a lot of sense.

   so now that we've got our plants and they're happy, whether we figured out how to grow them from seed and harden them off ourselves, or we got them from the nursery who took care of kind of that behind the scenes work for us, what do we do if we want to preserve and store basil for future use?

  I mean, if we're supposed to be trimming these plants on a pretty regular basis to keep them from flowering, to help them grow more, feels like I might end up with a lot of basil at one time. How can I make it last longer?

  Alyson: Yes. I, and also we want to be using that throughout the year if we can, right? We would love to have a fresh-ish or at least something that we grew in the winter. That's nice to have. And so th- there's two main ways. I mean, drying, obviously that's generally what you buy on the shelves at the grocery store.

  You're getting a dried version. So if you wanna dry it, you can just take the branches.take an entire branch. You don't need to just take the leaves, but cut the branches, tie them together and hang them up in a ... You don't wanna do it in a sunny spot. You want them to just dry, naturally.

  You can also put them into a dehydrator, or put them on sheet pans into your oven or toaster oven. That's a great way to do it as well. and then you basically mince it up, with a grinder or in a food processor, crush it by hand, whatever is fun for you. Add it to a spice, spice jar.

  And what did we say? Label it.

  Amber: Yay.

  Alyson: It's kinda like when you were in kindergarten and you always had to put your name at the top of the paper. Label and date your spices. Label and date your food.

  Amber: Yeah, seriously. Okay, so is one option. I don't love dried basil. I feel like it doesn't taste like fresh basil. Although I guess I've never dried my own basil. I've just bought dried basil, like, at the grocery store already in the little spice jar. And it tastes fine, but it does not remind me of actual basil.

  So what are other ways that we could maybe store basil that might capture a little bit more of that, freshness in a

  Alyson: Yes. and let's be honest, when you have to buy an entire jar of basil, maybe it has been sitting there a while. I know I could probably use a, a clean-out of my spice jars. So it's nice to have a refresh every year if you are gonna do some of the dried. But here's what I love, and there's a book called Freeze Fresh, and

   We will link that in the show notes. it is freezing your basil. And the best way to do this is stripping the leaves off of the stem, discard the stems, mince those leaves with a, a sharp knife, and then freeze them in olive oil in ice cube trays. And then you've got basically ready u- to use portions to throw in your pot when you're making pasta.

  and you can seal them in a, a freezer bag or some kind of container, label and date that, and then you know what it is. And yeah, I love having an ice cube or two. Ice cube, we say, but it's an olive oil cube of basil that can go into any of your dishes. that's awesome to have in the winter for sure

  Amber: I love that so much, and I think this means it's time to talk about how to eat basil, right?

  Alyson: Yes. That, I was gonna say, that's your area of expertise. I'm not giving anybody recipes here. You're gonna do this.

  Amber: when we think about different ways to use basil, I'm guessing for most people the first thing that comes to mind is pesto. I feel like that is the tried-and-true way to use fresh basil. And there's a lot of fun ways that you can, like, do a twist on pesto too. So you could mix multiple herbs together with the basil.

  You could swap out the traditional pine nuts for a different kind of nut. You could swap out the, Parmesan cheese for a different kind of cheese or leave it out altogether. And similar to how you were describing freezing the fresh basil in olive oil, pesto freezes really well too. So if you know you're a pesto lover, you could just jump to full-on making pesto when you're harvesting your basil and freeze that and be able to pull that out and just like, you know, toss it with some pasta in January and feel like there's a little hint of summer somewhere out there still. another way that I really like to use herbs, basil, yes, but so many other herbs, would be to make an herb oil that you're planning to use, within the next like week or two versus freezing. My favorite combo is basil, rosemary, parsley, and garlic. this was the secret to all of the food at a catering company that I used to work for.

  Like this was the thing that they put on all of the proteins before grilling or searing them, all of the veggies before steaming them, And essentially you can just throw it all into a blender and just buzz it up until the herbs are finely chopped and the garlic is finely chopped and store it in the refrigerator.

  Again, put a label on it with the date. but just put, a couple of spoonfuls onto veggies before you throw them on the grill or onto your, chicken before you're popping it in the oven or searing it in a pan. Season with a little bit of salt and pepper and you just have such a great base flavor to start from. the flavor just gives you kind of that nice like herbal well-seasoned base without being really strongly flavored of like a certain region or cuisine.

  So that's really nice. As we've talked about several times, basil is like tomato's best friend. So like

  Alyson: Oh

  Amber: anything. Yeah

  Alyson: Before you move on to tomatoes, it- you, you just said herb oil, so is there a certain type of oil that you recommend using, or is it up to your own discretion, it doesn't matter?

  Amber: Yeah, my preferred oil, I like to use an avocado oil to keep the oil base really, mild in flavor. I feel like avocado oil has that really nice neutral flavor, and it can be used on high heat applications too. But you could certainly do it with an olive oil, either a mild olive oil, to keep that flavor neutral, or if you just really love that flavor of like a stronger olive oil, you could use that. You know, be slightly aware of smoke point in terms of how you might think you use it, but it can be really versatile. I mean, I think back to my catering days, I believe it was a mix of like a neutral canola oil kind of thing with a little bit of olive oil, so you kind of got the best of both worlds in terms of like smoke point and then a little bit of that olive oil flavor in there too without it being too overwhelming.

  So yeah, try things out and see what you like.

  Alyson: I love having the secret to make me feel and maybe even taste like I knew what I was doing.

  Amber: Yes, I know. Isn't it fun? And let's face it, no one actually knows what they're doing, so just own it with confidence and people will believe it.

  Alyson: Yeah. So let's talk about tomatoes, 'cause obviously we can grow the tomatoes, we grow the basil. Now what do we do with them?

  Amber: E- everything and, and anything. I feel like there's no wrong way to use basil with tomatoes. In the summer, the classic, caprese salad is the first place that I go. slices of tomato, slices of fresh mozzarella, just nice fresh leaves of basil. Finish that with a little olive oil, salt, and pepper. Chef's kiss. Delicious. and any variation of that, different tomatoes, chopping it versus slices, like, all of those things. I also feel like so at home in tomato soup. I mean, you see that a lot, like a tomato basil soup, or in a tomato sauce, like a marinara type of thing.

  And I find if I'm making those things from scratch or even starting with canned tomatoes, I will throw, like, a whole branch of basil in while the tomatoes are either, simmering, to reduce, or I often roast the tomatoes in the oven to get rid of some of the excess water before I turn it into something like a soup or a sauce. And that whole branch, because that branch does have a lot of flavor, even if it's woody and you wouldn't necessarily wanna, like, chew on it, it works really well in that cooking method because then you just pull it out at the end. Like, the basil has given up its flavor to this mixture of tomatoes, and then you can just kind of toss that away.

  And if you wanna add a little bit more fresh chopped up basil in at the very end before serving, you can do that too. But I don't think you can go wrong with any tomato basil combination.

  Alyson: For sure. Well, that's good to know that you can put the whole branch in, 'cause usually I always leave... I usually always leave the, basil until the end because I'm worried about disrupting its flavor profile. So that's also good to know

  Amber: I think one of the nice things about that is you get different layers of the flavor. Like, if you throw in the whole, branch with a few leaves during, the slow simmering process of making a sauce or a soup, and kind of pull that out and discard it, and then finish with fresh basil, it's like you're getting basil in two different

   flavor profiles of basil, so it just adds to that,layered complexity of the food, which again, kind of going back to what you were saying before, makes you feel like you're an expert and that you know the secret to, making something just that much better. So it gives you that more rounded depth of flavor with things.

  Alyson: This is just an example of how it is your steady, loyal pal, but it's gonna surprise you with an adventure once in a while if you wanna use it that way

  Amber: I had mentioned at the beginning that tulsi or holy basil is most often used for tea. I've never made the tea myself. I've always purchased tulsi tea, but I really do love it. It just has a really nice mild flavor, and like I said, that benefit of helping just relax the, nervous system is great. We had mentioned with Thai basil, most often it is used in Thai dishes and really several Southeast Asian countries that use a lot of herbs will use it. Like, I've definitely seen Thai basil show up in, Vietnamese recipes and, restaurants too. would say Thai basil chicken is probably one of the most popular and well-known, so pad krapow I have no idea if I'm saying that properly. I'm guessing my enunciation is not point there. the dish is delicious. It's essentially chicken and some spicy chilies with a of Thai basil. So you just get that really strong kind of, like, licorice-y, minty fresh flavor with this, spicy, savory chicken dish. Absolutely delicious

  Alyson: You know what? Now that makes me wonder if Thai basil... Now I want to know the origins of it, and I want to know if it grows year-round in Thailand. So I don't know, maybe,

  Amber: Yeah

  Alyson: can email us and let us know.

  Amber: That's a great question. I never, yeah, I've never really thought about that. I also find that Thai basil tends to flower sooner, but I don't know that it necessarily changes the flavor as much as I notice with the sweet basil.

  Alyson: Okay

  Amber: So I don't know. Again,

  Alyson: We have more to learn.

  Amber: Yeah, absolut- I'm

  Alyson: Always.

  Amber: Always. Thai basil is also great in like a fresh spring roll or summer roll, so just getting that like really fresh herb flavor in there. It pairs really nicely with, mint and cilantro and kind of all of those other fresh herb flavors that you would put in a spring roll. Italian seasoning.

  So you described how to dry it. It can be mixed with other dried herbs, so things like oregano or some thyme, even some dried garlic. You know, mixing all of those things together to make, some kind of dried Italian seasoning. And then herbed salts is another great one. And again, some of these apply to multiple herbs that we'll talk about, so we'll probably mention them maybe more briefly in future episodes. but herb salts, when you put the herb into salt, like chop it up and mix it with salt, the salt draws out the moisture from the herb, essentially drying it, but then also it is flavoring the salt itself too, and then you can use that to season your food and get some of that delicious herb flavor at the same time that you're adding that salty seasoning to your food too

  Alyson: You just, you kind of unlocked a new thing for me because I'm thinking cocktails and like potentially doing like an herb salted rim on something. And then what if on the other side, because I also have a sweet tooth, you could do a sugar, like a basil sugar that would be a rim or, for something on a basil lemonade or something.

  That would be fun, too

  Amber: I didn't have this on my original list, but this conversation just reminded me, a couple of years ago I was developing a recipe for a client, and it was essentially a strawberry shortcake, but I made a basil simple syrup that I swirled into the whipped cream that went on top of it. So I had this bright green, swirl in the, bright white whipped cream, and then this, delicious basil flavor with a little bit of sweetness

  Alyson: That sounds amazing

  Amber: Yeah, it was beautiful and delicious

  Alyson: Cool. Oh my goodness. Okay, so obviously these aren't things that we have to keep to ourselves, right? We could, but we can also gift them, and that's what I, I actually find, especially when I have an abundance of something, uh, you better believe you might be getting something with something from the garden.

  Amber: I love that. And so I'm guessing you have a bunch of ideas on how we can gift some herbal delicacies to friends and family.

  Alyson: AndIt can be as simple as, we talked about propagating basil, putting that in a l- cute little pot and giving it to a friend, so then they get basil. and they can do some of their own things, or you can do them together. even at the herbed salts or the Italian seasoning, make that, put a, type up a little recipe, which I know we can get lots of recipes on wholeyounutrition.com, and I've used one today actually.

  I made, artichoke, the artichoke spinach farro salad with dill. So it had a, you know... They all have some kind of seasoning in them. Anyway, so have a little recipe or some dry pasta and put that all together with your personally grown herbs that are put in a little cute jar with a ribbon. I grew up, on a farm and ranch, and I feel like we would do some of these things.

  You'd make chocolates or whatever, but make things cute with little mason jars. but also being the flower girl, we talked about propagating, but also if you do let the basil go to flower, they are pretty and aromatic in a bouquet of flowers. And so I actually grow some of the purple basil varieties specifically for it to flower and go into some small posies

  Amber: Really love that. That also reminds me when I was in culinary school, oh, so many years ago, there was a chef instructor who was, I think, engaged at the time, and their wedding was maybe, like, the summer after whatever class I was taking with him. And he said that his bride was carrying flowering herbs as her wedding bouquet as a nod to their, shared love of, of cooking and culinary arts.

  And I just thought that was, like, such a cool idea

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: filed it away as like, "Oh, you could even have cute little, flowering herbs on the tables," like in little, mason jars or whatever too. Like, how fun to take advantage of the flowers. So if it got a little out of hand, you can still use the basil in a really fun way.

  Alyson: Absolutely.

  Amber: okay, so question for you. If you could only grow one kind of basil for the rest of your life, we've talked about a few different varieties today, what variety would you choose?

  Alyson: I've mentioned it a few times, so it's probably not gonna be a surprise, but the Everleaf Emerald Towers basil is, it's a steady Eddie that you can, it will grow tall, and it will just keep pumping out leaves for you to use. I've had the most luck with it in my garden.

  Sometimes I feel like because I don't cut things back as much as I should, this one just is, it's prolific. So if you want a lot of basil, and you wanna store basil and give basil away, that's the one to go with

  Amber: I think I'm going to have to, get over my fear of growing things from seeds next year and really give it a try and add this basil

  Alyson: Yeah.

  Amber: to that list

  Alyson: So, okay, you asked me what I would grow. I'm gonna ask you how you would eat it if you only had one, one way to eat basil the rest of your life

  Amber: I know this feels a little bit like cheating, but I'm gonna go with it anyways. Uh, with tomatoes.

  Alyson: Yep. All right.

  Amber: It might be a little broad, but I'm gonna stick with that. So I will only eat it with tomatoes. I will give up my, Thai chicken and spring rolls and stick with the tomatoes, but

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: I think that covers the basics of basil today.if you liked today's episode, you can support us by telling a friend about the show, and if you have any questions, please do reach out.

  You can find me online at wholeyounutrition.com.

  Alyson: And you can find me on Instagram at Sassy Daffodil

  Amber: All right. Until our next herbal episode, have a great day. Bye

🥗 Featured Whole You Nutrition Recipes for Basil:

• A Pretty Classic Basil Pesto

• Summer Greens & Beans (Easy Caprese Bean Toast)

• White Bean Turkey Pesto Meatballs

• Creamy Tomato Basil Soup

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🎙️ Episode 2: Mint: It’s Hip to Be Square (Stemmed)

Did you know mint is practically un-killable? In this episode, Alyson breaks down why you must plant mint in a container unless you want it to take over your entire yard, along with the fun secret to identifying mint family plants by their stems! On the kitchen side, we explore refreshing summer mocktails, mint teas, and savory pairings like mint chutneys, veggie salads, and lamb.

• Click to Read Mint Episode Transcript

  Plant to Plate S1E2 Mint

  Amber: Welcome to Plant to Plate, the podcast that shares a love of growing and eating food. This season, we're exploring herbs. I'm Amber, a licensed nutritionist and founder of Whole You Nutrition and Meal Planning Collective

  Alyson: And I'm Allison, the garden consultant, designer, and educator behind Sassy Daffodil. today's episode, we're getting fresh with the mint family. We're gonna cover different varieties, flavor profiles, and potential health benefits. Plus, things to consider when growing mint and their related plants, and of course, how to harvest and store and eat the herbs. We love kicking off each episode with our interpretation of the personalities of our herb du jour, if I can say that.

  Amber: Or you can.

  Alyson: can't really. So Amber, what comes to mind when we're typecasting

  Amber: Yeah. mint is definitely an extrovert. it's at the party, it wants you to know it's at the party. If it were a dog, it would be a golden retriever. So excited, so happy to see you, wants to be in everyone's business, which I think we'll talk about both from, a flavor and a growing perspective during the course of this episode.

  Alyson: I mean, I would rather have mint in my business than garlic, so

  Amber: Fair point. Fair point.

  Alyson: Oh, this ring is very true for how it grows in the garden, for sure. If you don't confine mint to a pot, you're gonna be finding its party favors all over your garden

  Amber: So I'm that person who had always heard, "Put mint in a pot before you put it in your garden." And I just, you know, didn't. I'm a rebel in that way. And I've actually had really mixed results. I had a few years where the mint really kept to kind of its own spot in the garden and grew really well, but didn't do a lot of spreading.

  And then it kinda died out, and I actually replaced it. And I noticed this year that new plant that I put in is sending out a lot of runners and going into different spots in my garden. So really shoulda put it in a pot when I replanted it. But, uh, lesson learned. Why don't you tell us a few more, like, do's and don'ts of, of growing mint, Allison?

  Alyson: Yeah. I mean, it is definitely known, it's infamous for its aggressive behavior. it does like to spread and I d- but the thing is, I don't want people to be scared to grow it, right? And so here's a couple tips. you can grow mint from seed. It grows fairly easily, but the thing with growing from seed is it's actually more generic and less potent. So interestingly enough, and like, my packet just says mint, and when it just says mint, that usually means spearmint. but you're better off going and buying a plant, dividing a plant from somebody you know or propagating it, or propagating a plant you already have. Those are your best options. so I would recommend buying a small plant from a nursery or a farmers market, and it's gonna grow quickly, as you

  Amber: Yes

  Alyson: I definitely say put it in a pot to control its size and roots because mint itself does like to spread, and it spreads and expands and regrows through its root system underground. So just because it dies back on the top does not mean it's not crawling around underneath the soil.

  Amber: So sneaky.

  Alyson: it is sneaky and you're gonna be plucking it out like weeds for years to come. So I would get on top of that this year if you haven't already. but here, here's the little, like, fun switch up for us. Because we're doing the whole mint family, let's talk about lemon balm and anise hyssop, which are both in the mint family, and they only spread by flowering and going to seed. Now, they like to spread a lot of seed, so as long as you cut the flowers after they're done, before they, start dropping the seeds, then you will limit the amount of those that come up the following year

  Amber: Okay, that's super interesting. I, I'll talk about it a little bit more later, but I do have some lemon balm in my garden, and it is not as prolific as it used to, but I don't think I've let it flower recently.

  Alyson: Mm-hmm

  Amber: the other thing I wanted to talk about, though, you had mentioned anise hyssop. And in the last episode when we were talking about basil, I had mentioned anise as a flavor, and that is that sort of, like, black licorice flavor, which, to add to the confusion, is not the same thing as actual licorice.

  But the anise seed, which is what I'm most familiar with in terms of, a thing that's added to, like, Scandinavian or Swedish baked goods, but that's different from anise hyssop, which is different from just sort of, like, the overall flavor profile of anise. Like, I feel like anise gets thrown around a lot.

  Can, can you help clarify, how this fits into the greater plant world?

  Alyson: Yes, I actually just learned this too. So, buckle your seat belts. True anise or anise, I don't actually don't know if there is a true pronunciation difference between the two, true anise, and here I, I, I'm not gonna say Latin names too often on this podcast, but here true anise is Pimpinella anisum or anisum. But the fact that it's Pimpinella, I might just call it Pimpinella for the rest of my life. so that is the Mediterranean plant that we grow for its seeds. It's actually in the carrot family. So that is not the mint family one. Then we've got anise hyssop, foeniculum. Foeniculum, I don't

  Amber: Love some Latin.

  Alyson: Right. so it's a North American native in the mint family. So anise hyssop is the one that's in the mint family, and it has edible flowers and leaves, so you're not using the seeds the

  Amber: Okay, that's so interesting. So I didn't know that anise, the Pimpinella form of anise, was in the carrot family, but I did know that cumin was in the carrot family. So it's just so interesting to me how plants are related, like the plant world and kind of the, I don't know, genealogy is not the right word for plant lines.

   just the way that so many things are connected and more related than you think they would be. Like, I don't think of like anise and carrots being very similar. Although I guess they have ... They're such tiny seeds, and if carrot go to seed they are very tiny seeds. Or like if I've, when I've planted carrots from seed.

  The seeds do look similar

  Alyson: And the flowers, you get kind of that umbral, of the white flowers. And so there is some similarity in the flowers, which sometimes we aren't as familiar with because we don't let it go to flower or we're using it for something else. but here, I'm just ... I'm gonna blow your mind because there's another anise, anise. It's the star anise,

  Amber: Oh,

  Alyson: we're

  Amber: yeah

  Alyson: know, you see that at Christmas, right? When you put in, like a mulling

  Amber: Yeah, such a beautiful, cool shape

  Alyson: Also different, totally different family. It's actually the fruit of an evergreen tree that is found in Southeast Asia.

  so in conclusion, is why you hear professionals refer to the Latin names because they... Not just because they're smart, but also because they want to ensure that the proper plant is being referenced. So we can all take a break after that intense lesson. Maybe you can just start taking us through the taste elements of these

  Amber: sure.

  Alyson: mints

  Amber: I must say I love that in a Mint fl- Family episode we also, sidebar into the whole, Anise and its, three different personalities.

  Alyson: it teaches a lesson that plants aren't related the way we think they are. There's not always the same thing. and that's also why, you know, sometimes I thought people just used the Latin names to sound like they were, were more intelligent than you, but turns out there's a

  Amber: There is. Yeah. When I say anise, it might not be the same one you're thinking of. I have a mint example that I'll talk about later too that I thought was really interesting when I learned about that. okay, so there are so many different kinds of mint and I- this stat kind of blew my mind, and I think speaks to the complexity of just trying to identify and categorize plants in general.

  But depending on the source, there are anywhere from 30 to 600 different varieties of mint in the world. So here we're starting with number one and we're going through 600. Buckle up. No, we will not do that. But I will talk about what I think are kind of the three, well, two most common mints that I think most people are familiar with from, I don't know, chewing gum and then lemon balm.

  I also wanna talk about that too. So peppermint is one that I think most people are familiar with. It's that like spicy, cooling flavor. It's the one I think of in terms of Christmas mint flavor, I think of as peppermint that really like spicy, bright, strong, the peppermint bark and all of that.

  So that makes me think of, holiday times. And then spearmint has a sweeter flavor than peppermint, but it still has that same cooling sensation when you eat it. And like you had mentioned, Allison, if something is just generically labeled mint, it tends to be spearmint, that sweeter mint flavor versus the more peppery or spicy versions of mint.

  Alyson: I mean, that is a, a name that makes sense then. Not a lot of plant names make sense, but peppermint is the

  Amber: Yeah.

  Alyson: Hey, we can

  Amber: It's

  Alyson: that way.

  Amber: peppery. Yes, and then the last one I wanna mention, I feel like this is a, a dear, a dear friend of ours that we want more people to know about: lemon balm. So lemon balm has more of a, as the name might imply, a lemony flavor, but it does finish with kind of that minty coolness that you would expect from a mint.

  But when you first bite into it, I don't think it takes you to your, mint family immediately. It takes you more to, a citrus place with that cooling finish. So it's kind of a cool one.

  Alyson: we're gonna talk more about lemon balm, and people didn't know that that's what they were getting into here, I'm sure. But,

  Amber: Maybe we should have called the episode Lemon Balm.

  Alyson: We'll put that in the show notes. By the way. But I mean, lemon balm and the mints, I think it's well known that at very least the mints have some different health benefits, and if we're gonna use them for an herbal remedy, which ones have which types of benefits?

  Amber: Yeah, and as I said in the previous episode, I am not an herbalist, but there are definitely some herbal traditions that do spill over into nutrition, and I would say peppermint for sure is one of them. peppermint is pretty well known to help aid in digestion. I don't think it's a mistake that a lot of gums are mint and peppermint flavored because people tend to chew them after meals, and they can help with that digestion.

   they can ease nausea, help with stomach cramps. It really helps just calm the nervous system, But it's just a really nice, whether you're having it in a tea form, there are some actually encapsulated versions of peppermint that you can take as well.

  I don't recommend, necessarily, unless it is clearly labeled as food grade, using something like a peppermint essential oil in food, unless, like I said, specifically labeled for food.

   It's just a kind of nice digestive tonic overall. So if you're having a, I don't know, if you ate a heavy meal or your digestion is feeling just a little like sluggish or off, having a cup of peppermint tea can be a really nice way to just sort of gently soothe your digestive system.

   and then another mint that, again, I work with mostly in a tea form is spearmint. And spearmint has been studied in particular with helping with hormonal balance in places like PCOS, because it has these anti-androgenic properties. So it can help with that balance of like testosterone in the system.

  Alyson: it's so interesting to hear because like I said, a lot of times our plants that we buy are just labeled mint, and then we make tea thinking they're going to, solve our stomach problems. But really if those are spearmint, they're not having the same effect. So we do need to be cognizant about if we're getting spearmint or peppermint or just the mint, which is

  Amber: Yeah. And even spearmint will help a little bit with digestion, but I don't... It hasn't been looked at, studied, and I don't think it has as many of the same compounds that really help with the digestive side. So it's not gonna hurt digestion, but it's not, used in the same way, for sure. And then lemon balm in particular is really about nervous system support and, helping to soothe an anxious nervous system.

  A lot of times you see lemon balm, mixed into, sleepy time teas. So even if you're just, at the store looking at different tea blends, lemon balm... You may have had lemon balm and not even known it because it's shown up in some sort of, like, sleepy time or bedtime tea that you might have tried.

  So those are just a few things, digestion, some hormone balance, and a little nervous system support, all from the mint family

  Alyson: I love learning all these things about these herbs that we can grow ourselves. I've been growing lemon balm for quite a while because I had somebody, you know, a little birdie told me that you need to be friends with lemon balm. if you haven't got it already hopefully this is your, your flag to go do that because it has even been touted, specifically lemon balm, to help with heartache. And I know that that feels a little bit, like, maybe fluffy, but it truly, that soothing peace is known to help with depression and even seasonal affective disorder, which is great for us in- Minnesotans in the wintertime. We know that SAD is a true thing here. So lemon balm is something to have on hand, and you can dry it, which we'll talk about

  Amber: Yeah, that's awesome. In my herbalism class in grad school, we had to pick an herb as kind of like the thing that we would study individually as we were moving through, and I picked lemon balm. I believe its Latin name, since we've mentioned some Latin names today, is Melissa officinalis. So I don't know who Melissa is, but

  Alyson: She's

  Amber: she's, she is, she is great.

  You want Melissa to be your friend. and during that class, I took the extra step of actually buying and adding some lemon balm to my garden, and I planted that like a decade ago. I've moved it to a couple of different locations within, within the garden, but it is still growing strong. And now that I know that it will spread a little more if I let it flower and seed, I might let it, do a little self-seeding this year and just let it get a little bit bigger than it has been.

   Mint really is that golden retriever. It is just so happy to be there spreading around. I just love it. but I wanna know a little bit more about growing mint. Does it have really specific conditions that it likes? How does it thrive?

  Alyson: that's the thing. It, it really, it's like, you know, I can kinda hang out anywhere, right? So even three-plus hours of sun. The more sun you get, the better it will do. sometimes when we put things that need at least some sun in a shadier spot than they like, they get what we call leggy, meaning that they grow a longer stem each time before trying to reach the sun before they put out leaves. So you could end up with some, it kind of flopping or things like that. So that might be able to tell you, "Hey, you could move this to a little bit sunnier spot," hopefully in your pot or where you can move it. so in that sense, it's not too picky. It just can't be in full shade like most plants, unless you look at some natives.

  But well, that's another topic for another time. it is a perennial, so like I said, it will, it could die back totally above the ground, and then it's gonna come back from its roots the following year, even here in Minnesota. it's good with that. I know so many people ask me, "What deters bunnies?

  What don't bunnies eat?" Well, bunnies will eat pretty much anything, and especially baby bunnies that don't have taste buds, they don't know what they're eating

  Amber: Wait, do they really not have taste buds?

  Alyson: Well, they're still developing their, taste buds and their idea of what they don't like, so sometimes you could get nibbles on things that you're like, "What?" But, generally bunnies don't eat mint because of the scent. So if you have things that have those different scents to them, like mint, they're great to put around something else that you don't want them to eat. Nothing's a guarantee. but the other thing is the flowers, even in catmint, which isn't really a culinary, plant, it's awesome.

  The pollinators absolutely love the flowers on that. And the anise hyssop, to bring it back to that, is an absolute bumblebee haven where I have my anise hyssop. And now I know that I need to say anise hyssop and not just anise all the time 'cause, of course, I like to cut things short. But yes,

  the bumblebees love it

  Amber: That's awesome. I do have some catmint in my yard that's planted purely as an ornamental. I do have cats, but I've never tried to dry it and see if they'd be into the particular version in my yard. But I see tons of bumblebees around it all the time, and I just love it

  Alyson: I have cats too. I, I've had two different cats that I've tried to put it in front of, and maybe they bat it around a little bit. There is actual catnip that is part of the mint family too, that sometimes they are drawn to. But sometimes cats, like their personality, they either do or don't

  Amber: okay, so harvesting, what do we need to know about harvesting mint?

  Alyson: Yeah, I'm gonna pe- keep this really short because harvesting is pretty much like basil, like we talked last time. It's recommended that you cut the stems just above the lowest leaf set so the plant keeps producing leaves, it can get bushier. really, as with plants, the more you cut, the more they'll produce, because they're trying to get to that flower stage.

  They're trying to get to that stage where they're growing seed. yeah, so harvest re- frequently, enjoy it in all the things, and encourage the bushy

  Amber: I love that. I think I need to harvest some of my mint today actually now that we're having this conversation. I don't think I've cut any of it this year. a lot of times mint is used fresh in applications, and I feel like it's almost a cliche at this point that you would see a dessert that has, like, a few fresh mint leaves, especially if it's in any sort of, cookbook or, a recipe blog or something.

   that is just the go-to little fresh green sprig that gets added to desserts. And I, I have dried it before. I've mostly used it in tea. But I do know that there's a tradition of using dried mint in some savory dishes in Middle Eastern and Mediterranean cuisines. I know at one point I had made a... I think it was a Lebanese salad of cucumber and tomato, but it specifically cr- called for dried mint in the recipe, which was really interesting, and there are several other recipes from that area of the world that use specifically dried mint.

   even though we think of it as a fresh herb or a tea in its dried form, there are other parts of the world that use it in different ways. So if you were to dry it, whether it's for tea or to use in one of these, regional cuisines, you can do similar to what we talked about with basil last week.

  Take a bunch, hang it upside down. Once it's dry, strip the leaves from the stem, and then crush it, and of course store it in an air tight container and label it. Especially if you're drying and storing several green herbs, you will likely be able to identify them by smell, but do you know what's more reliable than being able to identify something by smell?

  Writing a label and putting it on the package.

  Alyson: If you learn nothing from us

  Amber: Table everything.

  Alyson: you talked about drying it and using it in the, the food, but I have frozen leaves in ice cubes with strawberries or blueberries, and then it's really fun to throw in your summer beverage.

  Amber: Yum

  Alyson: it looks pretty, and it adds a little bit of flavor, just to spice up things at, in your picnic or

  Amber: Yeah, I feel like that'd be great in a number of cocktails, and also just like a lemonade, a way to add

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: a minty berry flavor to a lemonade. That sounds great.

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: in terms of cooking, I... Okay, so here's the thing with mint. I adore it, but I also recognize it can be a controversial flavor. I think there are a number of people who are horrified when mint shows up in their chocolate, for example.

  Like, they're just not into the flavor. so I think it is one of those flavors that can be a little bit polarizing, but I think it's delightful, and here are some of the ways that I like to use fresh mint, especially if you have a very overzealous plant one summer. one thing that I've done in the past is make fresh mint ice cream, and in order to do that, essentially you harvest all the mint leaves and you steep it in the cream that you're going to use to make the ice cream, so it infuses all of its great minty flavor, and then you pull out the, the leaves and move forward with whatever your ice cream recipe is.

  And I particularly like that if I add a little bit of chocolate towards the end of the churning process to make your own homemade mint chip ice cream. another way that I love to use mint in-- that uses a pretty good quantity is making a mint syrup. surprising- When I first heard this, I was like, "I don't know about this flavor combo," but mint syrup in iced coffee without chocolate, this is not like a mint mocha situation, just the mint simple syrup in an iced coffee is so delightfully refreshing on like a hot summer day.

  So similar to the ice cream, you take all of your mint leaves and you steep them in a water and sugar solution, essentially one part water, one part sugar, and just let them hang out in there for a while, and then pull them out, strain it, and you've got this deliciously flavored syrup that you can use in coffee or desserts or cakes, like wherever you want a little sweetness and a little mint flavor.

  So those are a few of my favorites. Another one would be, like, a mint cilantro chutney, something you would see with Indian cuisine. Has a great fresh green flavor, adds a lot of brightness, and they usually tend to be a little bit spicy too, so it can be a good way if you're also growing a lot of chilies in your garden to use up, chilies along with all of that mint.

  Of course, we talked about a dessert garnish. if we think of England, mint and lamb is a classic combination. Mint jelly is something that shows up a lot when you're looking at, British cuisine. And I personally love mint mixed with cucumber and melon, and that includes, honeydew, cantaloupe, or watermelon.

  And lemon balm is also particularly delicious with cucumber and melon. So again, let's dry it for tea, but while it's fresh and in the summer, let's toss it in with a little bit of watermelon in a salad.

  So I'm guessing based on our conversation about basil, that if we are not able to finish all of the mint that we have taking over our garden, 'cause we didn't put it in a pot, that you might have a few gifting ideas for us

  Alyson: Yeah. I, of course, I love finding ways that we can use what we grow and, don't have to buy it at the store. At the very least, support some of our smaller local businesses. And I think a easy, fun option is to do, a mint sampler of different mint varieties that we've talked about for the tea lover in your life. and then as I was thinking, I'm like, "That's a fun gift, but what if you hosted a tea tasting party with the different types of mint?" I think that would be

  Amber: It would be really fun. Talk about a great way to, experience a few of the up to 600 different kinds of mint in the world too, and be able to talk about them

  Alyson: yeah. like your guests, maybe everybody grows their own mint and they all bring, a piece or bring some of it to the tea tasting sampler or, you grew them all, you can give everybody a sprig of your mint because you can propagate it that way. And so people can take it home and

  Amber: Yes, that's immediately where my head went when you were talking about like, "Oh, if we all had a different mint." then we can share sprigs and propagate the ones we loved.

  Alyson: Yes.

  Amber: Take them home for ourselves."

  Alyson: on a totally different side, if you're feeling a little bit ambitious, lemon balm, we talked about its benefits before, but infusing it in a topical oil, I like to use apricot kernel oil, then you can use it to, when you make homemade salves. You'll get the, the benefits of the lemon balm.

  I actually also use calendula, and I fuse both those. I dry them, infuse them in oil for about three weeks, and then I will make a salve with beeswax. people always talk about it, and I still ... I have one in every single bag I carry around 'cause I always want to use it for something. I do have a reel for how I make these on my Instagram page, so we'll make sure to link that in our, the captions

  Amber: I love that. I've made maybe one time in that herbalism class I had to make a salve, and I believe it was a calendula one. but what are the ways that you like to use the lemon balm one? Are you using it mostly for, a moisturizing or, like, cuticles? Are you just doing it for the aroma and kind of that nervous system relaxation thing that we had talked about earlier?

  Alyson: Generally, the, the calendula and lemon balm do not give off too much aroma in it. at that point, it- I'm more adding essential oils for an aroma to it, an orange or a lavender or something like that, eucalyptus or whatever. but the, the combination of calendula and lemon balm has a very healing effect. So it, I tell people any kind of skin ailment,there's only four ingredients in the salves that I make, I will put it on insect bites, I'll put it on scratches, I'll put it on anything that, that I want to heal a little bit more. it's not, 100% guaranteed, but I have found, at least for myself, that I, I want it, I want to put it on things, and it helps them heal faster, and

  Amber: I love that. So now we know when you first get a mosquito bite and it itches, you put on a basil poultice, and then when you are ready for it to start healing and the itching has subsided, you switch over to the lemon balm and calendula

  Alyson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. am mean really to, I, I don't know if we got... To take it full circle, I actually do have a lip balm that I make, and I add mint to it. So of

  Amber: Love it. Yeah

  Alyson: balm, you know, you like the fresh stuff around, you know, for the,

  Amber: Absolutely. my default lip balm is Burt's Bees peppermint lip balm.

  Alyson: I added this. I know you talked about the syrup, but I did do a try this when you're baking. if you want to make an herb sugar, you can massage the leaves into the sugar, and that helps release the oils from the leaves, and that creates a more intense flavor.

   we talked about how many oodles of mint varieties that we have, and we didn't even get into all of them. Is there a unique flavor that you've seen that you would like to try?

  Amber: when we were talking about varieties, one thing that came to mind, walking down the nursery aisles this year when I was buying my plants, the mint section was huge, and it was a little bit like the whole, Bubba Gump shrimp thing where it was like apple mint, chocolate mint, lemon mint.

  Like, there was just so many different kinds of mint. a few years ago we were gifted a chocolate mint plant from my partner's mom, and we popped it in the garden, and that has been a really great one to use for things like the mint ice cream and the mint syrups because it's not, like, super chocolatey, but it does have a little bit more of that, deeper depth of flavor that you get from chocolate.

   so that has been really fun, and I would recommend people try that. And then I also remember encountering what was called fish mint when I was traveling in Vietnam. And what I learned later is that it's not actually related to mint. So it is fish mint. Despite being called fish mint, it is not one of the 600 mints in the world, which maybe that's why there's such a range, the 30 to 600, because a bunch of things are called mint that aren't mint and, things that aren't, have, don't have mint in the name are actually mint.

  Like, who knows? even though it's not called mint, I... Or it is called mint, but it's not related to the mint family. It's called that because it spreads in a similar way to mint. it's very aggressive and very hardy, so if one is to plant it somewhere and not put it in a pot, it sounds like it might take over.

  Alyson: Does it smell like fish?

  Amber: I don't remember it being all that offensive in any way, but I, I'm wondering if it's more similar to cilantro in which some people have a stronger taste aversion to it than others. I did notice it was always served fresh, so I'm wondering if some of those more unpleasant flavors come out in a cooked version.

  Alyson: that one's a really interesting one because what essentially classifies things to be in a mint family is that they have a square stem. And so

  Amber: Huh?

  Alyson: It's not just because, Alfred over here thinks it should be in the mint family, that's, it's, that's what it's supposed to be. So lemon balm and anise hyssop do have square stems

  Amber: I don't think I've ever considered the shape of a stem on a plant.

  Alyson: You will

  Amber: I sure will. how about you? Is there one of the v- many, many versions of mint that you are either most excited to try because you haven't, or holds a special place in your heart, besides lemon balm, which we've already talked about?

  Alyson: Yes. I really love the smell of orange mint. I think that's just a lovely... I mean, both of those things are very refreshing and energizing, and I don't actually have it right now, and I'm realizing with all this talk and all of those options, I want to make a mint passport and see how many I can try.

  Like, get all the stamps, you know?

  Amber: That sounds so fun. I'm also- like, I get so excited when we talk about these things, which is one of the reasons that I just love the conversations that we have, because now I'm like, is there a little section in my yard where I could literally have, like, so many different kinds of mint? just my little, mint garden off to the side, and I don't know.

  They can fight it out between who takes over the most space, which varietal wins. But yeah, that's- it just sounds so fun to be able to taste all of them, and I think when you taste things back to back, you notice those subtle differences. So if somebody put orange mint in something and didn't tell you it was orange mint, you're probably just like, "Oh, this tastes minty."

  But if you're thinking about it, you pick up on some of those more subtle flavor profiles, and then you think of ways to use it that really highlight them as well.

  Alyson: Yes. And I think it's, for me, it's more just, like, when I walk by the plant, then I rub it a little bit and I get this, it just invigorates me, right? It's aromatherapy, right?

  Amber: Yeah. I love that

  Alyson: mint really can't help being the life of the party. We could just talk about it forever, But this party has gotta end, right?

  Amber: Sure does.

  Alyson: If we overstay our welcome, people aren't gonna listen

  Amber: The golden retriever, she needs a nap

  Alyson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've covered as much as we can for today. but if you like today's episode, tell a friend, if you have any questions about the show, please reach out. You can find me on Instagram @sassydaffodil.

  Amber: you can find me at wholeyounutrition.com. All right, until the next time, bye

🥗 Featured Whole You Nutrition Recipes for Mint:

• Fresh Mint Syrup for Coffee, Cocktails, and Mocktails

• Shrimp Summer Roll Bowl

• Lamb and Beef Kofta with Garlic Tahini Sauce

• Plus, Amber’s Favorite Fresh Mint Ice Cream Recipe

🎙️ Episode 3: Rosemary: She’s Not Bad, She’s Just Grown That Way

Rosemary has instantly identifiable needle-like leaves and a piney aroma that not only taste and smell great, but also boost memory and alertness! Alyson guides us through growing rosemary indoors vs. outdoors, overwintering, and soil drainage. In the kitchen, we talk about using hardy rosemary stems as natural skewers for grilling, roasting meats and root vegetables, and creating cozy herb breads and marinades.

• Click to Read Rosemary Episode Transcript

  Plant to Plate S1E3 Rosemary

  Alyson: Welcome to Plant to Plate, the podcast that shares a love of growing and eating food. This season, we're exploring herbs. I'm Allison, the garden consultant, designer, and educator behind Sassy Daffodil

  Amber: And I'm Amber, a licensed nutritionist and founder of Whole You Nutrition and Meal Planning Collective. today's episode, we are exploring rosemary in kind of the usual ways that we've been exploring herbs, so varieties, potential health benefits, how to grow it, what it tastes like, and how to use it. And as per usual with these herb episodes, let's start with rosemary's personality. Allison, how would you describe rosemary?

  Alyson: Oh, rosemary, she's a slight diva, but she's worth the effort, right? I think that if she were a human, we kind of humanize them or animalize them as we did like with mint. I imagine that she wears a boa and large sunglasses, and we swoon over her and over her intoxicating aroma.

  Amber: Okay, I love this, and when you described that, the immediate image that came to mind is Miss Piggy.

  Alyson: What? Okay, I

  Amber: Not the intoxicating aroma part, like that was the part where I'm like, "I don't know, does she smell like bacon?"

  Alyson: Yum.

  Amber: the bo- like the boa and the sunglasses and

  Alyson: Oh

  Amber: the like full diva like thing.

  Alyson: Interesting. I, I was curious if you were gonna... 'Cause in my mind I was thinking, this is why I had such a, a reaction to yours. I was thinking Jessica Rabbit.

  Amber: I mean, they're different, but similar in ways?

  Alyson: I mean, diva, diva is a spectrum, right?

  Amber: Yes. Also, Jessica Rabbit, she's not bad, she's just drawn that way.

  Alyson: Both fake characters, which is interesting, so

  Amber: Yeah. I mean, best to keep it fictional, right?

  Alyson: Sure. Yes.

  Amber: Okay, so with mint and basil, we talked about a bunch of different varieties. there were so many things in the mint family. What was it up to, like 600 different types of mint-related things, depending on how you count it? And with basil, there were a bunch of different varieties as well. I don't know if I have seen any specific varieties of rosemary. Are there different varieties that we should know about? Or do we just kind of get rosemary

  Alyson: Unlike basil and mint, I feel like rosemary, as its little diva self, wants you to bask in herself and bask in her glory without any additional flavor or aroma distractions. so the main note that I'll make here is that if y- you want to grow it for culinary purposes or herbal use, make sure that you are getting a culinary version.

   some regions warmer than Minnesota, can actually grow rosemary, and it can be sold as an ornamental for landscaping use. And those plants can be treated with systemic insecticides, also known as neonics or neonicotinoids, or synthetic fert- fertilizers. So just know that those things can be on some of the rosemary, so look for the word culinary or ask about it,

  'Cause those really aren't suitable for consumption

  Amber: Are the neonics, I feel like, is that the thing that you hear about that's not pollinator friendly that can make some plants that you buy at the nursery not as great for our insects and wildlife?

  Alyson: Correct. Thank you so much, Amber. And I would've loved if you would've said the whole word, but it's okay. We'll call...

  Amber: I appreciate you giving me the shortened version.

  Alyson: Neonics, yeah. neonics really, they are systemic in that they will stay in the plant forever and ever. So it goes down into its roots, and then when it creates seeds, it's in the seeds. So it just proliferates through not just that plant's life, but through all the plants that came from it. And so it is a concern, and it is intended to, keep in- insects away, it, or in some cases actually kill them.

   So a, a systemic insecticide means that it is in the plant forever and ever

  Amber: I didn't realize that it would even get into the seeds. That's, wow, crazy. that's one of those moments where it's like both kinda cool that we could figure something out like that, and is this really where we needed to use that kind of information? I don't think we need to mess with the plants.

  They're pretty smart without us.

  Alyson: it was, done for agricultural purposes, and now I think we see the other side, and so backtracking is tough.

   it's really just about education. there may be appropriate places for it, and if you have tunnels or different things that you're covering the plants with that the insects are gonna be on anyway, I guess then in that case you wouldn't need the insecticides.

  So there are alternatives, but anyway. We don't have to have the whole episode be about neonics.

  Amber: Okay, so we know we're looking for a culinary use grade if we're going to be eating it I'm guessing most nurseries that is pretty clearly marked,if you're buying it in the section with all the other herbs, it's pretty safe to assume that it is a culinary grade herb, and if you're buying it with the shrubs, perhaps not. how do we grow and care for rosemary, particularly, one that we're using for culinary use?

  Alyson: Exactly. she's a bit particular to, live up to her diva sake. especially when getting started. So she does take a very long time from seed. I do recommend buy a seedling if you're, if you're impatient or if you actually just want rosemary. farmers markets, co-ops, that's, those are CSAs.

  Those are all places that, I would definitely recommend, going as local as possible, if you aren't actually going to grow it yourself. Rosemary loves her sun. She wants to bask in the sun six plus hours is best, and she likes her heat. there is a reason that rosemary is a full landscaping shrub in the South.

  She likes her heat. She likes her sun.

  Amber: If we were gonna do a personality quiz based on that alone, I am not Rosemary.

  Alyson: I agree. You and I are both pale-skinned northern girls, so this is where when people ask if something is an annual or a perennial, does it come back, in this case, we call it a tender perennial, meaning it will survive in warmer climates, but in Minnesota it's not going to come back if you leave it outside in the winter.

   the warmer climates is, I'm talking like zone 7 up to 10. That would be, your Arizonas and places like that. Here in Minnesota, we either treat it like an annual or we have to bring it indoors, and it, it still wants its sun. Even if it is gonna go dormant, you, you wanna have some sun, for the kind of the shoulder seasons.

  And if you don't wanna bring the whole plant in, here's the, the good thing about, rosemary, and something that she gives us, she gives us back, is that you can take a sprig of the rosemary and put it in water. Are you noticing a pattern with herbs?

  Amber: I really am. They want to be shared

  Alyson: Yeah. Yeah.

  Amber: message I'm taking away from it. All the herbs want to be shared

  Alyson: And they, they are cool sitting in water, and in a lot of cases are gonna develop roots in water, and so that's what rosemary will do. I have done that over winter. And so even though you only end up with a... It's not going to grow a whole bush inside your house, but it gives you something that you don't have to buy the following year if you do keep it alive through the winter.

   just remove the bottom leaves. You don't want any of those leaves in the water. That's what can create bacteria. And you do wanna change the water on a somewhat frequent basis, every few weeks. keep it in a window. And there, if your house is really dry, I mean, Minnesota tends to be pretty dry in the winter, and other places it are, is as well, you give it a spa day.

  It would love to spend the, while you're taking a hot shower, it would love to spend some time in the bathroom and then come out, or you can spritz it, with a little spray bottle or whatever. Like any houseplant actually, they do like to have just a little bit of a spritz of water in the wintertime if you don't have a humidifier or something like that going.

   those are some ways to, to help it get through the winter if you wanna do that.

  Amber: I think that's always been my downfall bringing rosemary in, is that my house is just too dry and I'm not attentive enough with the, the spritzing and humidifying factors during the dry winter days. but speaking of spa days, so and, some other herbs, we talked a little bit about this last week, with mint and calendula.

  But rosemary's often featured in, personal care products, and one of the ones particularly for rosemary that comes to mind is Aveda's famous, infamous, I don't know, rosemary mint shampoos and lotions. And so I, I did a little research into rosemary and hair because, you know, Aveda's all about nature, and I assumed there was a reason that they were picking this formulation of rosemary and mint. part of it is for sure, as we've mentioned before, that one of the benefits of most herbs, and most plants honestly, is that they have antioxidant and anti-inflammatory compounds. these things can be soothing on the skin. We talked about the basil poultice for mosquito bites, which I got a few hiking this weekend, but I still have not tried putting a basil poultice on them. and we talked about the salve last week, being a very nice way to kind of soothe skin. Now, with rosemary, it does have those antioxidant and anti-inflammatory compounds, but I wouldn't recommend chopping up fresh ro- rosemary and throwing it into your shampoo. there is this process, and even when we were talking about salves last week, like, there's a process on how you make these things to keep them safe, both to maintain those active constituents that help, with the benefit of whatever we're trying to bring into the product, and also just keep it from getting moldy.

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: plant bits floating around. I found really interesting about rosemary, so not only does it have this, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, which can be just soothing to the scalp. One of the active constituents is actually similar to what is used in hair loss products. So there is some indication that one of the active constituents can stimulate hair growth as well. So I just thought that was really interesting.I don't know that rosemary mint shampoo is going to help you grow back hair, but I don't think it's gonna hurt

  Alyson: there are definitely recipes out there for rosemary hair rinses, so that you can actually just boil on your stove and use it. You go look that up, but we don't have to give you all the details on something like that. But yes, there are some different things, and the amount of rosemary and mint in the shampoos that you get may not be as much as you would need for it to g- help regrow your hair, but it might smell nice, right?

  Amber: Yeah, I do think it's probably more of the aromatherapy

  Alyson: Mm-hmm.

  Amber: of things than it is necessarily all of those active constituents, especially in a product like that. beyond personal care products, rosemary, again, I don't know, have I said this every episode we've done, can help support the nervous system.

  And again, that's like really what aromatherapy is, these aromas, these smells, these compounds in the plants are soothing to our nervous system, and there's a lot of ways that we can get those benefits. We've talked about tea in some previous episodes. And rosemary, I really do think just the smell of it is one of the things that, can help with that soothing of the nervous system. And the other thing that rosemary is, renowned for is a memory aid, and this tradition goes back a ways. Like it's even mentioned in Shakespeare's Hamlet, so it's not like a new, a new thing that's coming around. but there have been some small studies related to rosemary and memory. Now, this was like 40 students.

  It was 10 to 11 year olds, and what they found is, when they were given some memory test type activities to do, that the students that were in the room with the, aroma of rosemary improved their results by 5 to 7%. Now, I don't know if because 40 e- 11 year olds did 5% better on a memory test we should all be rushing out and thinking that rosemary is, the thing that's going to save us all from cognitive decline, but it is an area of interest because there's such an increase in Alzheimer's and dementia. and this goes back to a long tradition of herbal medicine, and we see that a lot of our pharmaceutical inventions today started in the plant world,

   it's just really interesting to see that these active plant constituents can help us in so many ways and actually form the basis of like some of our modern medicine. So again, of course, consult your doctor or a licensed herbalist in determining if an herbal treatment, whether it's for regrowing your hair or helping with pain, right for you

  Alyson: That sounded like a commercial.

  Amber: I know.

  Alyson: Like the,

  Amber: Here's the disclaimer at the end.

  Alyson: "Ask your doctor if If rosemary is right for you

  Amber: Yes, and I would be curious to hear what your doctor said if you're like, "I heard rosemary might help with my hair loss." I don't think that's something that they cover, extensively in medical school, but so switching gears. Allison, rosemary feels like a very different plant in many ways to basil and mint.

   I just think of how it has this like woodier stem and the leaves are needle-like compared to the like softer, fluffier leaves of mint and basil. But is it that different? Like, do we harvest it differently? What are the How do we take care of it?

  Alyson: as with most plants, cutting frequently encourages bushing, and for rosemary, pruning can help keep the stems from getting woody. most plants actually do benefit from, cutting off some of the ends and, letting it regenerate.

   rosemary will generally only flower in climate zones seven to 10, as I mentioned earlier. I didn't know it even flowered. but most plants have some kind of flower cycle, right? So they can, reproduce and create their seeds and, kinda keep the cycle going.

  Amber: Yeah

  Alyson: But for those of us in colder zones, so zones two through six, we really don't have to worry about it going to flower and going to seed, and having that, either have a bunch of little volunteers coming up or have the flowering affect the flavor, because it doesn't happen here, like it does with basil and mint, during the summer months.

   Somehow, Amber, we haven't even talked about flavor yet, right?

  Amber: I

  Alyson: we get carried away, but it's, I think it's all good info. So why don't you tell us about the flavor and how we might use rosemary in the kitchen

  Amber: I'd mentioned that rosemary, and I think most of our listeners are probably aware that rosemary looks a little bit like pine needles. it has that very, slender needle-like shape. and it does actually have a bit of a piney flavor to it as well, like in the nicest possible way. there's sort of a hint of lemon in there, so a little bit of citrus and a little bit of thatconifer, piney type of flavor to it. And it's really found in a lot of different European and Mediterranean or Middle Eastern culinary cuisines. I think one of the things that makes, from like a cooking perspective, that makes rosemary different from mint and basil is that it's a really hardy herb, so it holds up well to long cooking times.

  So we had talked more with mint and basil about adding them towards the end to, maintain their flavors and get that freshness. but rosemary's one that you often see added at the start of something, and I think of it immediately as like the meat and potato herb. I

  Alyson: Oh, yes

  Amber: with red meats and starchy potatoes. and those tend to cook for longer or at higher heats, than preparations that would use things like basil or mint. So that's one of the uses that immediately comes to mind. another one is the herb oil. listeners might recall that I talked about herb oil, I think it was in our first episode with basil. and that my favorite combination in an herb oil included basil, rosemary, parsley, and some garlic. So again, just mentioning it here. and I will put a link in our show notes to my version of an herb oil, so if people are interested in making some and having it at home, they can, they can find that on my website, wholeyounutrition.com. rosemary's also often part of something like an Italian seasoning or, in the south of France, where they doHerbs de Provence, which is a mix of different herbs, rosemary is often found in one of those mixes. herb salts, as we've talked about before, and I think rosemary works particularly well in herb salts because it's a little heartier because, when cooking things like, red meats, I'm thinking like beef and lamb, salt is a really great friend for bringing out the flavors in those, so having this like rosemary and salt mixed together to flavor those foods is really nice.

  Alyson: I like that because sometimes I just take a sprig and I lay it on my steak or something and I'm like, "Get in there. Get..." Make it really flavorful. But yeah, having it as a salt, 'cause the salt definitely can kind of penetrate the steak

  Amber: I've even seen, people use particularly woody stems of rosemary as a skewer, so sticking them through, small pieces of meat or shrimp or something like that, so you kind of get that infusion of flavor from the stem through the food as it's cooking too, which is kind of cool. Plus it can look cool to have this little, herbal in your food rather than just a typical, bamboo skewer or something. another favorite of mine is focaccia, so you know, delicious, olive oily, salty bread. But the flavor of rosemary is just a really nice addition and pretty classic in terms of, that Italian bread. And then one, I think you told me about this actually,

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: rosemary along with pineapple to infuse water

  Alyson: This was, I think it was a hotel, like some hotel lobby that I ha- I don't know where it was. Somehow I had it, and I was like, "What? This is the most unexpected favorite infused water ever." And so now I bring it up when people are like, "Oh, let's do strawberry mint." I'm like, "Oh, no, no, let's up our game."

  Amber: We can do so much

  Alyson: yeah, I mean, that's good, too, right?

  But this is one that's unexpected, and I just really love it. And I'm ... When you talked about that hint of lemon, I'm like, "Oh, I wonder if that's kind of playing off of the sweet pineapple." I really enjoy it, so I encourage everybody to try that in the summer. And I ... The other thing with that, and you mentioned focaccia, I have always gravitated towards the rosemary crackers or sourdough or focaccia.

  So have you ever made any of those from scratch?

  Amber: I've definitely done a, rosemary focaccia bread at

  Alyson: Yum.

  Mm-hmm.

  Amber: love, love. love. I haven't put it in my sourdough, which I make sourdough bread pretty regularly, so I think my plant is still pretty small this year. It was transplanted from in my house, after an unhappy winter, there was enough left to get outside, and it's surviving, but it is not currently thriving.

  So we'll see if I get enough to actually do some bread or if I might have to swing by a farmers market and pick up some extra.

  Alyson: Well, I will say that I have two plants that I started from seed, like back in February, March, and they're still pretty small too. I clipped off the tops to make them bushier, but they're still the size of my fist. You know, they're not, they're not a shrub from Arizona by any chance. But,

  Amber: Yeah

  Alyson: they, you know, they, they will really grow in the sun.

  And as an example right now, we've been getting a lot of rain and a lot of heat, but the sun... Well, I- I'll clarify that I think my tomatoes have also like grown like crazy and actually shaded out my rosemary. So sometimes we plant them in a spot that we think is gonna be sunny, and then something grows and it's not sunny any longer.

  So that could be part of it.

  Amber: Yeah. I have noticed with the rain and the heat, a lot of plants in my garden are exploding in size.

  Alyson: Yes.

  Amber: much, harvesting and even, any of, the fruiting is still pretty minimal in terms of plants, but they are to three times bigger than they were about a week ago. I don't know how they grow so quickly.

  Alyson: I, it, so rain is such an amazing nutrient for plants. sometimes we think, "Oh, we're gonna water them," and it's the same as rain, but it is not. It, I mean, you're essentially getting fertilizer, through the rain, and it is much better than your hose water. so that's the nice thing right now, but obviously sometimes we have to supplement, so

  Amber: Yes, I'm always happy when it rains. Um, that is a Garbage song, I believe. Uh, but I was

  Alyson: Quality song by Garbage.

  Amber: sound familiar as I'm saying it?"

  Alyson: I'm only happy,

  Amber: yes,

  Alyson: only happy when it rains.

  Amber: correct. Only Happy When It Rains. Um, m- my plants might be only happy when it rains because by about the midsummer, I'm less happy about going out and watering them with the hose.

  So it's better for everyone

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: if, if the rain can happen. okay, so we've talked about a few ways to use it, you know, meat and potatoes, bread and crackers, rosemary pineapple water. I think those are the highlights.

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: but how can we preserve it? How can we make it last longer so if we're not going to be able

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: use everything, that we're growing, how can I use it in, January?

  Alyson: again, kind of the similar, drying it is really, tying it up in bunches and letting it hang to dry, and then stripping the leaves off and mince that. store it in a container and label it.

  Amber: Table

  Alyson: Uh,

  Amber: it.

  Alyson: so you've heard- you keep hearing that one. Repetition is important in this game. but f- freezing it, so we talked about kinda how to freeze things in ice cubes or, in ice cube trays with olive oil.

  So the thing with rosemary is you can act- you can freeze it in the ice cube trays with olive oil like you do with basil, but you can also freeze rosemary without the oil. So especially if you feel like, "Oh, that's more oil than I would've used in my pasta sauce," or whatever. So here's what I love, is that you can freeze it on a tray or something a- after it's minced up, and you can essentially pinch it out of the freezer container, or you can get a tablespoon of it or something, and it's going to spread like a bunch of little pieces of rosemary.

  The thing is, you wanna make sure it goes straight back in the freezer because it will thaw. And then when it thaws and then you put it back in the freezer, now you're gonna have one big chunk,

  Amber: Oh, sure

  Alyson: right. Well, actually most herbs you can do that with except for basil, because basil has its own little concerns about getting too cold and getting bruises and black and f- freezer burn, whatever. So

  Amber: A, a little diva in its own way.

  Alyson: yes. It's a fun different way. And so if you were to harvest it from your garden today and decided to rinse it for whatever reason, you don't have to, but obviously if, a bird pooped on it or something, you might want to.

   but then you just wanna make sure you are towel-drying it before you mince it up and put it in the freezer. It's not a big problem, it's just gonna end up that you're gonna get a big chunk because if there's any little bit of water that's what will freeze together. But you don't have to dry it, dry it.

  I want to be clear that towel dry versus truly drying over weeks hung up. You don't have to dry it that much to put it in the freezer

  Amber: Okay, I'm really excited to try freezing rosemary this way because I feel like it's sometimes tricky when it's dry because it can be so hard. I'll talk a little bit more about that later. But I'm, I feel like it would be more similar to fresh rosemary frozen from fresh versus drying. I

  Alyson: Yeah. And also feels like you're cooking with something more fresh when you get to pinch it and, you know, put it in your sauce or whatever.

  Amber: Yeah, I love that

  Alyson: so one, you talked about oils, but I also think that, vinegar is another way that we can preserve it. so really for most herbal vinegars, you're gonna take one part herbs to two parts vinegar, and you can use any kind of vinegar that you prefer, whether it's apple cider or white or white wine vinegar, those kind of things.

   you could steep one cup of minced rosemary leaves in two cups of white wine vinegar for two to four weeks. And then, you can reduce that if you do heat. This is where you wanna Google things and make sure you're getting a safe recipe. But filter out the herbs and then use- pour the vinegar into your clean bottle that doesn't have a metal lid, 'cause that will react with the vinegar, and voila,

  Amber: Good

  Alyson: you have a nice little, vinegar.

  Amber: I'm guessing herb vinegar would make a really great gift, and I'm also guessing you have some other ways that we could share rosemary with friends and loved ones

  Alyson: Of course, crafty Allison has some different things for you.

  Amber: I love it

  Alyson: I... This, to me, is like a Christmas holiday, memory, right? Let's go with that. So I love saving and drying the whole stems and keeping the leaves on them, and then wrapping gifts in brown paper and a fun ribbon or something with, the sprigs of rosemary.

   if you wanna just leave it or if you wanna, hot glue it with some other things, you can do those things as well. But I will say try this. If you dry the rosemary, you can put it into holiday simmer pot kits. So if you had a jar, then you can combine the rosemary with dried oranges, cranberries, cinnamon sticks, even the star anise that we've talked in the past.

   you can make some different combos, and then they can have it as a holiday simmer pot, that you've already made for them. Or really, if you're like me and you absolutely love her aroma, you can make a simple drawer s- sachet with some rosemary in it, and then you'll get a brain boost every time you reach for your socks.

  Amber: Okay, that is such a great idea, and I think it would be great on its own or mixed with the maybe slightly more common lavender, that's used for a drawer sachet.

  Alyson: And get calming, calming effect as well as the memory release.

  Amber: I'm smarter and calmer? Yes, please. I

  Alyson: Yay, herbs.

  Amber: know, seriously. And I do agree that rosemary, because of that, pine needle-like look to it, totally gives off, winter holiday vibes. I've always loved seeing it tied up on packages or even turned into, wreaths decorated with, cheese and little peppers as part of, a charcuterie board to give it really, a holiday feel.

  It's so fun. but I'm going to start wrapping us up now. I have a question. rosemary is the herb of remembrance, what is your single-- I love that I say single, 'cause in my answer I think I have, like, five answers. But what is your single or few most vivid memories associated with rosemary?

  Alyson: This is a good question, and thank goodness I remember it. yes, we make ourselves laugh, folks. most of my life I've spent in the northern states in cold climates.but many years ago, I went a r- on a retreat in Arizona, and I was walking around the buildings, and I was in awe of how lovely it smelled outside, and I kept leaning down and smelling these large flowering shrubs and rubbing my fingers on the leaves.

  And finally, this li- this little northern girl goes up and asks, one of the guest services. I'm like, "What is this shrub? It's just amazing. I love it so much." That they had all over the property, and my jaw dropped when they told me that it was rosemary 'cause I didn't... How does roma- rosemary get that big?

  How does it live in February? Well, in Arizona, it can do that. So I will say that I now have taken that into my garden design, and I love designing with fragrant plants near entryways or sitting areas exactly for that reason

  Amber: Oh, that's such a great idea. I love that so much. And I

  Alyson: How about we

  Amber: when, like, a plant that we know surprises us in that

  Alyson: Yeah.

  Amber: must be something totally new I've never heard of before." And it's like, "Oh,

  Alyson: Yeah.

  Amber: Yes

  Alyson: they looked at me, they're like, "Uh, it's rosemary? Like, everybody knows what rosemary is. Why don't you know it?" And I was like, "Well, I... It's just not how I was familiar." So it does show you how plant climates can change how plants show up, right? So okay. So tell us y- your single or many memories that you have with rosemary.

  Amber: I mean, when I started thinking about rosemary ... So I would say, my earliest or first memory, I jokingly say is, a little bit fuzzy because I didn't really have rosemary in my childhood. I would say it was the first time I experienced fresh rosemary. 'Cause when I was a kid, much all herbs were dried things in little jars in the cupboard.

  Like,

  Alyson: Oh yeah

  Amber: was just like, I don't know, I was a kid in the '80s, that just wasn't a thing that happened in, northern Minnesota where I was growing up. and I always thought that rosemary was the weirdest one of all of the dried herbs in the cupboard, 'cause it looked like a jar full of pine needles.

  I was very familiar with pine trees growing up in Duluth, but I was not familiar with rosemary. So I just thought it was, like, so weird. They were, dry and hard and crumbly, and, what would you - why would you put these dry little twiggy things into your food? But when I first experienced fresh rosemary, the fragrance, how they are needle-like leaves, but they're actually pretty soft, and then that more complex flavor.

  So yes, a little bit piney, but some of that, like, lemon and almost a little, like, menthol-y in ways, too. Like, almost a coolness to it in, in some ways, that I was just like, "Oh, rosemary, where have you been all my life?"

   I don't remember which preparation was first, but it was either rosemary potatoes or rosemary focaccia. Those were, the two earliest, like, first things that I definitely tasted fresh rosemary in. And then I had mentioned the herb oil a little bit earlier, and that is another thing that I just can't help but think of because when I worked in catering, I swear I was, cover- I probably smelled like this herb oil most of my life for the seven years that I worked in catering 'cause we would make five-gallon buckets full of it at a time.

  So we're, like, stripping, a pound of rosemary to make this herb oil. So again, that is another one that I can't help but, but think of. So, all right

  Alyson: eau, like E-A-U, eau de rosemary oil or

  Amber: Yeah. Although it was probably the garlic that clung the most.

  Alyson: Yeah. For sure. Yeah, unfortunately.

  Oh man, that's awesome.

  Amber: yeah, I think we've covered the basics and then some

  Alyson: Yeah

  Amber: and if you liked today's episode, you can support the show by telling a friend. And of course, if you have any questions, please do reach out. You can find me at wholeyounutrition.com

  Alyson: And you can find me on Instagram at Sassy Daffodil. Thanks for listening

  Amber: Bye

🥗 Featured Whole You Nutrition Recipes for Rosemary:

• Herb Oil for Everything

• Butter Herb Roasted Chicken

• Garden Any-Herb Salt

• Homemade Vinaigrette Recipe

🎙️ Episode 4: Chamomile: Peace, Love, & Flower Power

We wrap up our herb series with the gentle, apple-scented blossom: chamomile! Alyson breaks down the difference between Roman and German chamomile and how to harvest those delicate daisy-like flower heads. We chat all about using dried chamomile for relaxing evening teas, nervous system support, and easing digestion.

• Click to Read Chamomile Episode Transcript

  Plant to Plate S1E4 Chamomile

  Amber: Welcome to Plant to Plate, the podcast that shares a love of growing and eating food. This season, we're exploring herbs. I'm Amber, a licensed nutritionist and founder of Whole You Nutrition and Meal Planning Collective

  Alyson: And I am Allison, the garden consultant, designer, and educator behind Sassy Daffodil. So in today's episode, we are exploring chamomile. we're gonna cover different varieties, flavor profiles, and potential health be- benefits, plus things to consider when growing chamomile, and of course, how to harvest, store, and eat this delicate, cute little flowery herb. We love kicking off each episode with our interpretation of the personality of the herb, So Amber, do you wanna help us understand who chamomile is?

  Amber: I do. I also want to recognize that this herb, chamomile, might feel a little bit out of the box for, like, a four episode arc on herbs, but I think it's a really fun curveball. there's some really important differences compared to herbs that we've talked about before. I'm excited to get into it.

   I would describe chamomile as a reliable, calming best friend, maybe a little bit Pollyanna or a little innocent girl next door, really great listener, someone you know you can count on. I also get some hippie vibes from her, very down-to-earth, natural, peace and love,

  And for those of you that don't know, and this might be where I get a little bit of the hippie vibe, is chamomile has flowers that look like tiny daisies, and I can't help but associate daisies with, with hippies, so I think that's part of it for me. But unlike the last three herbs that we discussed, this is where the curveball comes in, we are not using the leaves of chamomile as the herb.

  We are using the flowers. So Allison, we're growing flowers this time, not leaves. What do we need to know about growing this?

  Alyson: I think that's another reason why it's good that we're using this, 'cause we've done, you know, kind of the woody rosemary versus the leaves on mint and, basil. And so yeah, knowing how flowers are different. the good news is this one is fairly easy from seed. you might even be able to sprinkle the contents of a chamomile teabag onto some soil and get free plants.

  Amber: Okay, so this is really funny but when we had first talked about what herbs we were going to discuss, we talked about the fact that you could sprinkle like loose leaf or the, the leaves from... Not leaves, flowers from your tea bag and potentially grow chamomile.

  And I meant to try it and I never got around to it, which I'm a little disappointed in myself, and I'm guessing it's probably a little too late in the season to try and, grow some chamomile from, from tea at this point

  Alyson: Not necessarily. You might, I mean, it would be interesting even to see if it germinates.

  Amber: That's true

  Alyson: you can, because it is a hardy herb, granted any time you have something in the very early stages of a seedling, it's still gonna be a little bit sensitive. But yeah, I think you still have a, a few months to, to see it grow.

  I bet you could actually get something

  Amber: Okay, well maybe I'll go sprinkle some in the spot that I just cleared of weeds this morning and see if we can get some chamomile coming up.

  Alyson: I should qualify it of course, 'cause depending when the flowers were harvested for whatever tea you got, they may have not been pollinated or, fertilized yet. so they may not be ones that would actually germinate if there's seeds in the, the seed heads of whatever's in your tea. just know, yes, it's possible.

  It's not a guarantee. Obviously buying seed packets is a better guarantee than your teabag, but you never know

  Amber: And let's just say we've had this tea. I didn't buy it. It has come into our home in a very large quantity, and it has been there for a few years since I think it was last consumed. So throwing it into the garden, either to grow or to just turn into some, like, mulch-y, fertilizer-y stuff that breaks down in the soil.

  Either way, I think it's fine.

  Alyson: I will say, and one of the reasons I say it's possible is last ti- when Amber and I were working together, we were doing microgreens. And at the time, I up finding fenugreek sprouting from my forgotten tea infuser. that's partly why I say there's a lot of stuff in tea bags that may still have, some seeds that could germinate if you give them the, the right conditions.

   we would love to know. Let us know in the comments if you've ever gotten something to germinate from your loose leaf tea.

  Amber: I would love to know

  Alyson: also something that I wanted to, to share that is new that we haven't talked about with the other herbs, it doesn't mean you can't do it with them, but if you have a countertop hydroponic garden, so something like an AeroGarden, and hydroponic means it's growing in water. I have an AeroGarden. It's got six pods in it, and you just put a seed or two in each little pod, and then it's basically, sitting in water, and it will germinate, and it will start growing. chamomile, I found, grows very easy from seed in that hydroponic environment, and you can harvest directly from there or transplant it into a pot or the garden when it becomes warm enough outside. So that's always an option. I've done that each year. It's basically a way, easy way for me to start seeds indoors without having to do too much tending to them because they just sit in the AeroGarden, and they've got a light over them as part of that contraption, Otherwise, you can always sow seeds, on the top of fluffy soil.

  The seeds of chamomile are tiny, and anytime you have tiny seeds, you need, generally need to make sure they're on the top of the soil and don't bury them, an inch down because they don't get enough light to germinate. Make sure you keep the soil moist. especially if it's outside, I would say spritzing it daily to make sure the seed, still has enough water and then as it becomes a seedling, you don't want it to dry out.

  That's probably the biggest thing is it can dry out pretty easily when it's little.

  Amber: I feel like we talked about similar to how with microgreens you, soak the seeds overnight before you,

  Alyson: big ones,

  Amber: Yes. Yeah.

  Alyson: a

  Amber: you'll,

  Alyson: shell

  Amber: yeah, you'll soak, the peas before you do your

  Alyson: Right

  Amber: shoots or whatever.

  Is this something that soaking it for even a short amount of time, like 10 minutes or something, would help or is that just gonna make them mad?

  Alyson: No. They're, they're so tiny, I, I don't wanna say that you would act- potentially ... I mean, in this case, in the AeroGarden, they're just staying in water.

  Amber: Almost feels like you'd lose them trying to,

  Alyson: yeah.

  Amber: strain the water out to get the seeds.

  Alyson: could end up with chamomile somewhere else.

  generally they're the ones that are, what would that be? Like a, a quarter inch in diameter. I mean, that's a pretty big seed. But like cilantro or beets or, they have a harder shell on them, and so then soaking can be helpful. But in general, I wouldn't recommend soaking your seeds, especially the small ones. Also because then you can't really sprinkle them.

  Amber: Yeah, they kind of stick to each other too. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense

  Alyson: And if all of this intimidates you, you can obviously go buy a seedling at the farmers market or a local nursery. And although this herb is listed as an annual, many people have found it to either re-seed and come up the next year.

  I have. I've found it, its fern-like greenery under the snow in, I would say early spring. So it's a fun little surprise that chamomile is coming back under the snow

  Amber: Oh, I love that. are there different varieties of chamomile that we should consider or know about?

  Alyson: Yeah. So there are two main kinds, and in this case we don't have a bunch of different names. It's just German or Roman. German chamomile is the one that most people grow if you're using it for tea. It can get to two to three feet tall in the right conditions. it will flower more prolifically, especially if it's got six t- plus hours of sun, but it will do okay in part shade as well. And then we've got the Roman chamomile, and this is sometimes known as English.

   but this one really makes a lovely perennial ground cover. It grows less than six inches tall, spreads across the soil. these two aren't just different in their growing habits, they also have a bit of difference in flavoring and medical benefits, right?

  Amber: Yeah, they're not super drastic, but I think there are a few distinctions worth noting. And I would say in general, chamomile is known to have a light, floral, slightly sweet flavor. there's been notes of honey or apple when tasting it, and in fact, the name is derived from the Greek word meaning earth apple, which I learned in the research of this, not because I know Greek.

   I would say the main flavor difference is that the Roman variety can taste really bitter if you use it for tea, so it really is, like you had mentioned, that German variety that's mostly grown and harvested for tea. the German, variety also has a higher level of those, like, beneficial oils and compounds that we look for when we're looking for, medicinal uses of plants

  Alyson: Okay. hearing if we want something short and pretty in the yard, we go for the Roman, if we want to actually enjoy it and reap the benefits, we would plant German chamomile.

  Amber: Yeah

  Alyson: of us have seen Sleepytime tea on the shelf at the store, right, with chamomile in it. can you share a little bit more about the benefits of our flowery friend?

  Kamille, which is the German word for chamomile.

  Amber: Cammie, chamomile. Hi, nice to meet you. I would say chamomile, as most of our listeners probably know, is most often steeped for tea. And again, I like to reiterate in each episode, I'm not an herbalist, but some of those herbal traditions do spill over into nutrition. And I think just, like, general knowledge, I feel like chamomile tea is one that many people are familiar with, and, not dissimilar to other herbs we've talked about in this series, but it's really great for the nervous system.

  So it helps to, feed and tone and rehabilitate the nervous system. It just helps you feel a little more at peace and relaxed. It also has those same anti-inflammatory benefits that we've talked about, with previous herbs. And I think the main thing that it's known for is that it has this, mild sedative effect, so it helps with sleep.

  That's why it's showing up in the sleepy time teas, or that's why someone might suggest you drink chamomile tea at night to help you kind of wind down for the evening. It does also have some, good gastric anti-inflammatory benefits. So we had talked about peppermint last time or a couple of times ago, and how that can help if you're having some discomfort and, chamomile can also help in that same way.

   So it can be a really lovely tea to consume if you just feel like you need a little support. The other thing that I think is cool about chamomile is that it can be applied topically for inflammation as well.

  So if you think about, like, a rash or a sunburn, and this is something where you would brew it as a tea and then let it cool, and you can put cloths or, a little cotton pad or something into the tea, squeeze out the extra, and then use it on your skin. You could rest, a, a rag that's damp with the chamomile tea over a, a sunburn, like, on your shoulder just to give you some of that relief and that anti-inflammatory, effect as well.

  And you can even use cooled steeped tea bags on your eyes to help de-puff your eyes or to soothe your skin in some way

  Alyson: Ooh, I think you, uh, may have stolen some of my thunder for later, but we will,

  Amber: Yikes.

  Alyson: use that as a cliffhanger.

  Amber: More information to come.

  Alyson: still great stuff to know about what we can do with

  Amber: I think one important thing to point out is that chamomile is related to ragweed. So if someone, has a particularly strong ragweed allergy, they might find that chamomile can trigger those allergy symptoms in them as well. So definitely do use a little bit of caution and be aware of your allergies and plant families.

  Again, it all comes back to plant families which this is a slight sidebar, but, I think it was a week ago I was reading, I believe it was the latest issue of Cook's Illustrated and if any of our listeners are familiar with that magazine, the back cover of the magazine always has this like beautiful hand-drawn illustration of some kind of food and there's a theme.

  And the theme for the, I think it was July/August issue was, uh, how do you say the, this family? Do you know? Asteraceae

  Alyson: Oh, yeah, I just say Aster.

  Amber: Yeah, so the Astor family. Anyways, they had chamomile pictured on there, but things that I didn't realize were related to chamomile, artichokes were also in the picture, which was, like, a surprising thing to me that artichokes... I don't know, maybe their flowers are daisy-like. I guess I've never seen a flowering artichoke.

  And then of course, like, sunflowers. And the other one that surprised me was tarragon, 'cause again, I don't think I've ever seen a tarragon flower, so I didn't know what it was related to, but according to Cook's Illustrated, it is in the same family as chamomile

  Alyson: There you go. Yes. The families are, are kind of wild, but 'Cause when you look at them, you're like, "Why would those be together?" But like mint, they have square stems, and most people wouldn't necessarily put that together. But yes, the asters generally has a flower with a center and petals around it that, generally go out flat.

  So, mm-hmm.

  Amber: we are talking about the flowers and that's the part we want to harvest, how do we do that? This is different from all the leaves we've talked about

  Alyson: Yes. And there is a diff-- especially when you're trying to get the most potent benefits of both the flavor as well as the benefits that you talked about from, health or medicals perspective. we are getting those flowers and what we wanna do, especially with chamomile, is we wanna minimize how much of the stem we get because that can make tea bitter.

  I feel like there's so many things around tea when people are like, "And that can make a tea bitter. That can make it bitter and that can make it bitter." And sometimes you get bitter tea and you're like, "Ew, this is gross." Well, it might be because it wasn't harvested at the right time or you have too much stem or whatever.

   frequent harvesting can promote continuous blooming like a lot of things, right? Plants continuously, we don't wanna cut them. They want to be cut so they can keep growing. They're gonna give you more flowers that way. Okay. So specifically potency. Let's talk about what we want to look for when we're harvesting. these little chamomile flowers, they're, maybe about the size of the tip of your pinky, I guess. when you've got the center that is plump and yellow, and the petals are white, open wide, like you see the daisies, that's a perfect time. if it's starting to turn brown, the petals are drooping down, or they've even fallen off, that'spast their prime. on the other side, flowers that haven't opened up yet, and you've got those white petals that are showing but they haven't opened, so they're still k- kind of stuck to the center, those are immature. I say all this, but I know it's not always feasible to get exactly that range. So you can still get a lot of benefit, from having the different flowers. Just this is kind of the ideal situation. And then I also tell-- this feels very ideal. The time of day actually can affect when you harvest.

  And if you are retired or have nothing else to do in your day, AM may be a perfect time that's the ideal time because the dew has dried off, but the sun hasn't gotten so hot that it is actually helping to evaporate some of those benefits from the flowers. I know that's not always gonna happen, so just know that going out there and getting it when you can, that is also acceptable

  Amber: I, I think this, ideal harvest time, like a specific time of day, is also where I get, a little peace and love hippie vibes. we have to wait until, the full moon of the whatever. Like, it feels a little bit like that in terms of getting the, the most ideal chamomile. Not that you can't get good chamomile just harvesting when the flowers are mostly open.

  Alyson: Yeah. Yep. Um, I know. It, it, it is one of those... And I don't ever want to give people, "This is how it has to happen, and this is the only way you'll get any health benefits," and then they don't do it at all, right?

  Amber: Right

  Alyson: we have to give all of ourselves a little bit of grace because we also live lives.

  Amber: Absolutely

  Alyson: the other thing is you really don't have to use snips to harvest.

  You can pop off these little flowers, pop off the heads, and that could be pretty satisfying to do that when you go out. most times I pluck them off with my hands into a bowl, but I have tried the comb method, where you can use an actual wide-tooth comb, or you can use your fingers like a comb, a group of stems, and then basically pull off as many flowers at a time as you can get. sometimes you get a little bit more stem that way, so depending how particular you are, I encourage having fun when you're harvesting the plants and not having to get in there and use snips for every single little, tiny flower. This is a way to get it.

  Amber: the comb method, whether it's with an actual comb or your fingers, does sound like a lot of fun. Plus you can always go in and trim off those stems, in the comfort of an air-conditioned space if it is also 95 and sunny at 10:00 AM while you're harvesting your chamomile.

  Alyson: Yes

  Amber: the other herbs that we've used, we've kept them on the stem when we've dried them.

  We talked about, just tying the stems together and hanging them upside down to dry them or to place them in water to keep them fresh. so if we're taking the chamomile, if we're harvesting it by leaving the stems in the garden and just pulling off the flower heads, how do we prep these flowers for storage?

  How do we use them fresh? How do we dry them? What do we do?

  Alyson: Yes. Very good question. another reason why this is a good one to go through since it is different than the others.

  unless your plants have been sprayed or have a lot of insects on them, you really don't need to rinse the flowers. It's not actually even recommended. So using fresh flowers immediately for tea is always an option, but a lot of times we harvest a lot at the same time or whatever, so you can dry them in a single layer on a mesh screen tray or towel. Place them in a dark or dry space for one to two weeks. You're just trying to get, you're trying to get all the moisture out because you don't want that to cause mold or bacteria when you store them. And it could take a different amount of time to dry, obviously, depending on humidity. So if you have a really humid climate, you might wanna use a dehydrator, and in that case, use a liner because the flowers do shrink, as

  everything does in a dehydrator. so th- that keeps f- the flowers from falling through the mesh when they dry out. also, always use the absolute lowest setting when you are drying flowers. Those oils that are in the, flowers themselves, that's what-- where the benefits are, and high heat can actually, negate the benefits or reduce them

  Amber: Oh, sure. That makes sense

  Alyson: And that we, that is the same for every single thing we talk about, once they're dry, you place them in a sealed container and

  Amber: Label

  Alyson: label it. We have a lot of fun with that, but we, wanna make sure that you remember label it, and then keep it out of the heat or sunlight to preserve the flar- flavor and the medicinal properties. So Amber, once we've gone through all this work growing and preserving our German chamomile, what are the culinary ways we can use it?

  Amber: I'll be honest, I have only ever used chamomile as a tea, and only a dry tea. I've never grown it, so I've never used it fresh. but the first thing that came to mind when I was thinking about how might I use it was similar to what we talked about with mint and some of the other herbs, but using it to infuse flavor into things like, sugar syrup or even into, like cream, and then using those to help flavor whatever it is that we're making with them.

  So syrups to add to, cocktails or lemonade or, in fruit salads. If you're infusing like milk or cream, it can be used in baked goods or French toast. I think the key with using chamomile is since it is a very delicate flavor, you don't want to use it with things that have very strong flavors 'cause you'll just lose it in there.

  So something that really highlights, like if you're infusing some cream and making French toast, maybe not just dumping a bunch of maple syrup on top of that because then you're just gonna ta- taste maple syrup and less so the, the chamomile that you've used. then the other thing that I have seen and I think just looks so cute are the flowers.

  It's an edible flower, which it could be fun in the future to talk about more edible flowers. But you can just use the flowers to add to a salad or a dessert or a garnish to something and they're just like, you know, cute little tiny daisies on there, which is so adorable. Uh, okay, and then this is, this is kind of f- funny.

  I'm going to, I'm going to let our listeners in to a little behind the scenes conversation. So

  Alyson: where you're going.

  Amber: I did some research since I haven't cooked with chamomile myself or used it beyond tea. I'm like, "Well, I know someone on the internet has. There's gotta be a list of recipes somewhere." And I did find a roundup of chamomile recipes, which we'll link to in the show notes, from a food blog called Adamant Kitchen.

  And I had dropped the link into one of our planning documents and when we were talking about it one day, Allison said, "Why does Adam Ant have a kitchen? why does this blog have this name?" At first I was very confused and I'm like, "What is she talking about?"

  And then I looked at the word adamant and I was like, "Oh, yes, that could also be read as Adam Ant."

  Alyson: Ant? thought Adam Ant himself had a chamomile kitchen If you don't know who Adam Ant is, this is the time. You can go look up a picture and you will... Yeah, it doesn't make sense that he would have anything to do with chamomile

  Amber: finger to and think about chamomile and understand the confusion of Adamant Kitchen versus Adam Ant Kitchen. Uh,

  Alyson: like that's, it's a little bit harder to explain on an audio podcast, 'cause if you see it...

  Amber: look at the link. You will never not see AdamandKitchen, especially in a website, because, we smash words together to make websites without spacing, and your brain has to do the gymnastics to figure out what the words are versus if there were spaces.

  Alyson: to defend myself here.

  Amber: No, it was so funny.

  Alyson: us

  Amber: We, we laughed for, I would guess no less than 20 minutes, after that conversation. So I, I hope it was, I hope it was amusing for our listeners as well. I still think it's funny to this day. Brings me great joy. So

  Alyson: Question before we move

  Amber: yeah,

  Alyson: we've talked about using all herbs fresh versus dried. Do you use the same amount in different recipes?

  Amber: Generally

  Alyson: Is

  Amber: not. Yeah, there's kind of a rule of thumb 'cause similar to how you talked about the flowers getting smaller while they're drying When you remove the water from an herb, it really concentrates the flavor more, so you should use less in the dried herb than you would in the fresh herb.

  I think the rule of thumb is usually like one to three. So if you were to use a tablespoon of fresh herb, you'd only wanna use a teaspoon of dried herb. That's my... If, if that is not correct, I will add a correction in, in the show notes, but off the top of my head, I think that's the general recommendation for the ratio to switch between the two.

  So less dried herb than fresh herb

  Alyson: I think that's really helpful. I think sometimes we take it for granted that, oh, I'm just- I'm using mint or I'm using chamomile and it says to use this much. Generally, the recipe would you to use fresh or dried and generally gives you an alternative if you have the other.

   in general, that's good to know that there's kind of a general rule of thumb

  Amber: Yeah.

  Alyson: of the herbs

  Amber: it's a great, a great question.

  Alyson: Yeah.

  Amber: All right. So we took our time. We grew this beautiful German chamomile.how can I share it

  Alyson: okay, so we've covered tea quite a bit, and so I wanted to give a couple ideas of things to pair with that. So if you have a cute little jar that you can put your dried chamomile tea, and then maybe pair it with some honey, and make a care package out of it.

  I think that would be lovely. Kind of all the things that can help support your friend or your loved one. as Amber alluded to earlier, you can make relieving and de-puffing eye packs. So I'm just gonna give a little bit on, on exactly how to do that.

  Amber: Great

  Alyson: to take those, tea bags, you can fill two or more tea bags, obviously, with chamomile, then attach instructions.

  So the instructions are pretty simple. You're going to steep it in hot water for a couple minutes, remove the water, and then let it cool. Then place a bag over each eye while lying down for about 15 or 20 minutes. And that's kinda cool. Obviously, the 15 or 20 minutes, I know sometimes we're like, "Where am I gonna get 15 or 20 minutes?"

  But the relaxing is taking that time.

   we associate cucumbers so often with de-puffing our eyes, but the fact that you might, be growing flowers that you can put in little tea bags would be cool, too

  Amber: Yeah, I love that. I love that as an alternative. Plus knowing that it has some of that anti-inflammatory benefit

  Alyson: Mm-hmm.

  Amber: in the flowers themselves, so you know that it has that kind of medicinal piece of it too. I don't know, I've never looked into the anti-inflammatory benefits of cucumbers from a topical use standpoint, or if it's just because they're like cold and

  Alyson: Right.

  Amber: in that way.

  Alyson: I, hmm,

  Amber: Future episodes?

  Alyson: Yeah, cucumber isn't an herb. It's not a topic for today.

  Amber: That's right. We'll get to the melon family later.

  Alyson: another option kind of along the same lines is a de-stressing bath bag you're gonna fill a muslin bag with a handful of... There's three different ingredients in this one, so having a handful of dried chamomile, a handful of lemon balm leaves,

  Amber: I knew she'd be back.

  Alyson: about in the, in the mint family, and then a handful of rose petals, which a lot of places now will sell rose petals in the tea section where you can g- get your own tea.

   It's cute, and pretty, and goes along with this whole idea of tea and de-stressing. So really, what you're doing with that bag, you can attach the instructions that basically say, use the hottest water possible. ultimately, what you're using is you're steeping that hot water through those beneficial herbs that we talked about, and have that h- you know, pour over the bag for a couple minutes. then you can adjust the water temperature so it doesn't scald you, and fill the rest of your bath up and enjoy

  Amber: I love that. So essentially we're making a tea for our body

  Alyson: Yes. Right? it does. It has all of those anti-inflammatory impact as well as, you're smelling it, as well as actually your, your pores are opened up because of the hot water or the steam, and so they're accepting the benefits of that.

  Amber: let me emphasize, fill a muslin bag. We're leaving the leaves in the bag as we're steeping this because there are some bath bombs out there where there are just, loose leaves put into a thing that you're dissolving into your bathtub, and then you end up with a pile of leaves either going down your drain and clogging it or getting all stuck in, like, your little hair filter thing that you have over the drain.

  So the muslin bag, I think, is a really great way to get all of those benefits without also causing a plumbing problem, which would immediately evaporate any de-stressing you just did in the bath.

  Alyson: Fair, yes, especially if you're taking this bath often. Uh, and then I, I haven't done it, but I also imagine you'd end up with things stuck on you if it's all over

  Amber: Yes. Yeah. And then you have to vacuum as you dry it off of your, like, it becomes a whole thing. Use a muslin bag.

  Alyson: of it from the beginning. We're trying to reduce your stress here.

  Amber: Great.

  Alyson: So, you know, I think just talking about chamomile with you, Amber, has a relaxing effect, and I've really enjoyed it. So if you're still awake, which I know you are, do you wanna share your favorite way to relax or your most relaxing experience?

  Amber: Fun question. I think I mentioned in a previous episode, I believe it was the rosemary episode, uh, that I grew up in Duluth, and we didn't have fresh rosemary in Duluth in the '80s. Somebody probably did, but we didn't. but I'm just so used to Lake Superior being a constant in my life, so I think one of the most relaxing things for me is being able to look out over a large body of water from a rocky shoreline.

  And perhaps I have a good book with me as well, so I kind of read, look at the water, go back to reading. And of course it's, not a hot day, it's a cool day. Love it.

  Alyson: Sounds lovely.

  Amber: Yeah. How about you, Allison?

  Alyson: You know, nobody's gonna be surprised that I enjoy being outside in my garden, and that's part of my relaxation practice. I have a hammock that's out in the shade. Has to be in the shade. It overlooks my backyard, and just laying there listening to the birds, watching the ecosystem that I've created is perfection. I think both of our images, I mean, just that's also very relaxing.

  Amber: I think our main takeaway between two of them too are, uh, nature is very relaxing

  Alyson: Sure.

  Amber: and herbs and other plants allow us to bring some of that nature inside and have it at other times too

  Alyson: Lovely. Yeah, notice neither of us talked about having our phones and scrolling them.

  Amber: Mm-mm. No, not relaxing.

  Alyson: Ah.

  Amber: Even though we think it is in the moment.

  Alyson: It's an easy thing to reach to, but yeah,

  Amber: Yeah

  Alyson: purposely finding these relaxing moments

  Amber: Yeah

  Alyson: important for our nervous system.

  Amber: It absolutely is. And that's where you find your 15 minutes to put the tea bags on your eyes. You put down the phone and stop scrolling. You've definitely got a 15-minute pocket somewhere in your day that is filled with that. Most of us do

  Alyson: I love it. Amber, on that note, we want to thank all our listeners, and we hope that you have enjoyed our Plant to Plate podcast, our little miniseries about the herbs basil, mint, rosemary, and chamomile. I know Amber and I have laughed and learned a lot while doing it. leave a comment or contact us and let us know what you think.

  If you want more, what do you want to hear about? If you liked today's episode, you can support the show by telling a friend, and if you have any questions, please reach out. Amber, do you have anything else to add?

  Amber: I just wanna reiterate what you, what you said. Please do reach out if you wanna hear more. we have such a good time chatting, these are things that we talk about when we get together anyway. So if you're finding value in it or if you have more questions about other herbs or other garden produce things, maybe tomatoes or zucchini or more edible flowers, whatever it might be, if you are interested in learning more, do let us know because we'd be happy to record future episodes if people are wanting them.

   and of course, thank you for listening and coming along on this little herbal journey with us.

  Alyson: Aw, yes. I can't believe we've gotten through our four episodes.

  Amber: I know. It's been so fun

  Alyson: It has been fun. but for now, we're gonna sign off, and as always, you can find me on Instagram @sassydaffodil

  Amber: And you can find me at Whole You Nutrition. Bye.

For a chamomile recipe round-up check out Adamant Kitchen (not Adam Ant Kitchen, ifykyk 😂)

• Who hosts the Plant to Plate Podcast, and what is it about?

  Plant to Plate is a casual podcast co-hosted by Amber (Whole You Nutrition) and Alyson (Sassy Daffodil).

  The first mini-season is a garden-to-table guide designed to help home gardeners grow, harvest, and cook with fresh herbs—whether you have a full backyard garden or a few patio pots.

  You can stream episodes directly using the audio players embedded in this blog post, or listen and subscribe on major podcast platforms including Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

• How do I use dried herbs instead of fresh, and vice versa?

  Because dried herbs are far more concentrated in flavor than fresh herbs, use 1 teaspoon of dried herbs for every 1 tablespoon (aka 3 teaspoons) of fresh herbs called for in a recipe.

  To use fresh herbs instead of dry, just reverse the amount. Use 1 tablespoon of fresh herbs for every 1 teaspoon of dried herbs called for.

• How do you keep harvested basil from turning black?

  Basil is extremely sensitive to cold and will turn black if stored in a cold refrigerator.

  To keep fresh-cut basil vibrant and green, treat it like a bouquet of flowers! Trim the stems and place them in a glass of water on your kitchen counter at room temperature. You can pinch off leaves for cooking or garnishing dishes as you need.

• How do you make herb-infused oils safely at home?

  Store fresh herb oils covered in the refrigerator. The USDA recommends using fresh herb oils within 4 days.

  For longer-term storage, freezing is a great option. An ice cube tray is a great tool to portion it out for quick, easy use down the road. Once the oil cubes are fully frozen, just pop them out and transfer them to a labeled freezer bag.

  Never store fresh herbs submerged in oil at room temperature! This can create an anaerobic environment for harmful bacteria lke botulism can grow.

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The information provided is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not intended to be medical advice or to diagnosis, treat, cure or prevent any disease. This information does not replace a one-on-one relationship with a physician or healthcare professional. Dietary changes and/or the taking of nutritional supplements may have differing effects on individuals.

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To learn more about how working with a nutritionist could help you, schedule a free 15-minute call.